kurt wismer

Virus Guy wrote:
> kurt wismer wrote:
>
>> and gateway filters can prevent the spam from reaching entire
>> domains...
>
> And gateway filters are more likely to run heavy-duty, sophisticated
> filters that can quickly stop even a PDF spam run.

round and round we go... i've already said that the spammers went with
pdf due to novelty... i never said it was a technique that was going to
be effective in the long term...

>>> Flash content is (usually) auto-rendered on a web page. PDF
>>> content is NOT auto-rendered as a component of a page being
>>> viewed.
>> ??? ok, so pdf content is auto-rendered as the entire page
>> instead of just a portion, is that distinction really
>> significant?
>
> I've never seen PDF content being auto-rendered either as it's own
> page or as a component of page unlike other components of a typical
> web page (ie like html code, java script, JPG or GIF images, etc).
>
> In my experience, PDF material (PDF files) are always presented only
> as links that require the user to click on them in order to view them.
>
> What browser has the option of rendering PDF files "in-line" ?

again, round and round we go... the acrobat reader includes a browser
plugin that allows you to read pdf files right in your browser...

>>> I could say that people who knowingly install acrobat on
>>> their systems probably belong to the demographic of people
>>> who are least likely to act on or respond to spam.
>> i'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you believe
>> that pdf's are only used by a technically sophisticated minority
>> rather than the majority...
>
> I believe that those that do go out and install a pdf reader are less
> likely to be spam responders (or spam readers) than those that don't
> have a pdf reader on their computer.

so you choose to believe that spam 'users' are less likely to be pdf
'users' to a significant enough degree to make this distinction worth
pursuing... somehow spam 'users' don't need government forms or product
documentation or any of those other things that require a pdf viewer...

i think you're reading too much into the fact that they respond to
spam... i see no reason why they should be significantly different from
the average user as far as pdf reader deployment goes...

> I've never said that only a technically-sophisticated minority are PDF
> users/readers (that's your embellishment).

it's a reasonable 'embellishment' as only the technically
unsophisticated would respond to spam...

> However, I do believe that
> was more true in the past than it is now. Arguably Google has played
> a role in making the PDF format more common and exposing it to more
> people by presenting PDF material in it's search results.

true, but it generally allows the user to 'view as html' and as such
doesn't necessarily drive people to install pdf readers...

>> this in spite the fact that pdf long ago became the de facto
>> standard for printable documents from government forms to online
>> product documentation to press releases and reports and to bus
>> schedules and route maps (not to mention the fact that it's a
>> major e-book format, that sample chapters from conventional
>> books are released in that format,
>
> That it is a common format for many useful or important documents it
> not the issue.
>
> The fact remains that some (or many) home computer users may never use
> their computers in such a was that would see them needing to obtain or
> open a PDF file, much less installing a PDF reader if not already
> present on their system.

the fact that it is a common format for many useful or important
documents means that many people are going to be users... the fact that
it has such a wide variety of uses means that it will have a broad pool
of users rather than being arbitrarily limited to more narrow subsets of
the population...

>> and that it comes pre-installed on machines from dell)...
>
> Clearly this conversation pertains to situations (or the implications)
> of a PDF reader NOT being pre-installed by a vendor,

no, clearly this conversation pertains to how *insignificant* those
situations are to the spammer... the spammer chooses a format that will
get his message into as many inboxes as possible so as to give him the
greatest chance of having it viewed - so long as neither filters nor
people expect spam in pdf form and so long as people think pdf is a safe
format they will click just to figure out what the heck it is... it's
usefulness will be short lived but that's why many have already moved on
to other formats...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"