Newbee Questions

Michael J. Mahon

mdj wrote:
> On Jan 14, 12:26 pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Warren Ernst wrote:
>>
>>>On Jan 13, 5:02 pm, "sfahey" <sfa...@a2central.com.remove-c97-this>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>> To: Warren Ernst
>>>>On 1/13/08 6:23 PM, in article
>>>>d066f431-9ad9-4725-b06a-19f303dca...@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, "Warren
>>
>>>>Ernst" <wer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Third, it has ADB for the keyboard and mouse, which are super cheap
>>>>>and easy to buy components. Spare //e keyboards aren't growing on
>>>>>trees, and the mouse controller card only shows up on ebay every 4
>>>>>months or so.
>>
>>>>Don't you mean mouse controller cards show up on ebay every 4 DAYS or so?
>>>>Seriously, I see them frequently. IIe keyboards aren't exactly rare either.
>>>>--- Synchronet 3.14a-Win32 NewsLink 1.85
>>>>A2Central.com - Your total source for Apple II computing.
>>
>>>Hmmm. I check ebay twice a week for Apple II stuff, but I took some
>>>time off for the holidays, and so today I do a search and there's
>>>something like 4 mouse controller cards available. Wow. I stand
>>>corrected.
>>
>>>That said, that pales in comparison to the dozens and dozens of ADB
>>>keyboards and mice The Bay has available right now for next to
>>>nothing...
>>
>>I guess I don't really see either the ADB keyboard or mouse as a
>>real advantage.
>>
>>Since whole //e's are under $10 and usually available locally, and
>>their keyboards seem to wear like iron, Easy ADB spares don't count
>>for much.
>>
>>And a //e needs a mouse like a fish needs a bicycle. ;-)
>
>
> Whilst I agree in principle, I use a Mouse Card in mine for its
> ability to generate VBL interrupts. Unfortunately, ProSEL goes rather
> psychotic when no mouse is connected to the card, so I end up with a
> desk space eater :-S

Ah, yes--I remember that schizoid "cursor" with the mouse disconnected!
That's why I removed my card so many years ago. ;-)

I've had several mice, including my favorite, an A+ optical mouse. And
I installed all the patches to use it with Appleworks, but I found that
I seldom actually reached over and used it, except when drawing.

I haven't used the Apple II to "draw" anything for years (having so much
better drawing tools available), and although I'm an inveterate Program
Writer user, I do all positioning with the cursor keys.

I found that having to take my hand off the keyboard to reach for the
mouse negated any advantage it might have offered.

Jeez, I never realized what a "command line" guy I am! ;-)

-michael

NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

Michael J. Mahon

David Empson wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Eric Rucker wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The IIc Plus is the fastest machine without modification. Yes, that
>>>counts the IIGS.
>>
>>Just thought I'd point out that the IIc Plus can be modified just by
>>changing a crystal oscillator ($2.00) to run at 8MHz, even faster than
>>most *accelerated* IIgs's. ;-)
>
>
> I thought most accelerated IIgses were 8 MHz or faster. There was a 7
> MHz version of the Zip GS, but I'm less familiar with the TransWarp.

No, I think that the stock versions were all less than 8MHz, and the
non-stock versions are still, I'd bet, in the minority.

Of course, with the thinning of the flock, the percentage of owners
who have modified their cards is much higher now than when they were
being sold. Put another way, when a user buys a card today, they
often do it with the intention of modifying it.

-michael

NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

Michael J. Mahon

Michael Kent wrote:
> oldchip <oldchip@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:

>>Can Apple2 go the Internet?
>
>
> Oh yes. My Apple IIgs has been on the internet nearly every day for over
> nineteen years.

Cool, Mike--you, too, were a pre-web Internet user!

-michael

NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

choice

In article <1iapy80.p4nbw6leuyo8N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>,
dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
> > > (Outside of North America, the //c is almost nonexistent - it
> > > was only sold in the US and Canada.)
> >
> > You surely mean the IIc+?
>
> Yes, I did mean the //c+. I was certainly thinking it when I wrote that
> sentence. Must have been a typo. Sorry for any confusion.


Actually, the Apple IIc Plus (a.k.a. Apple IIc+) was ONLY available in the
United States. Not in Canada at all. Licensed Apple dealers in Canada
were never allowed to stock/sell the Apple IIc Plus at all.

David Empson

Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:

> David Empson wrote:
> > Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
> >>Eric Rucker wrote:
> >>>The IIc Plus is the fastest machine without modification. Yes, that
> >>>counts the IIGS.
> >>
> >>Just thought I'd point out that the IIc Plus can be modified just by
> >>changing a crystal oscillator ($2.00) to run at 8MHz, even faster than
> >>most *accelerated* IIgs's. ;-)
> >
> > I thought most accelerated IIgses were 8 MHz or faster. There was a 7
> > MHz version of the Zip GS, but I'm less familiar with the TransWarp.
>
> No, I think that the stock versions were all less than 8MHz, and the
> non-stock versions are still, I'd bet, in the minority.

I bought a ZipGS shortly after they were released. Its original version
was 8 MHz.

I think they had problems getting 8 MHz CPUs (or maybe they weren't
operating reliably at 8 MHz), so they reduced the standard speed to 7
MHz.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

David Empson

Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:

> Michael Kent wrote:
> > oldchip <oldchip@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>
> >>Can Apple2 go the Internet?
> >
> >
> > Oh yes. My Apple IIgs has been on the internet nearly every day for over
> > nineteen years.
>
> Cool, Mike--you, too, were a pre-web Internet user!

There are lots of us out there. My IIgs was on the Internet around 1991,
possibly a little earlier. I've had this e-mail account that long, but
it has mutated several times. I was using local bulletin boards before
we had public access to the Internet in New Zealand (it was only
available to Universities prior to that).

I stopped using my IIgs for Internet access when I got a Mac in 1996,
but I was using Lynx (text mode browser) on a shell/BBS account at my
ISP with my IIgs for a little while before that.

--
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

mdj

On Jan 14, 5:18 pm, "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:

> I found that having to take my hand off the keyboard to reach for the
> mouse negated any advantage it might have offered.
>
> Jeez, I never realized what a "command line" guy I am! ;-)

I am very similar. In fact on my PC, I remap caps-lock to generate
CTRL. I consider the "IBM" keyboard layout that moves CTRL away from
the home row to be a travesty of a human interface design.

Matt

Eric Rucker

On Jan 14, 1:10*am, David Wilson <mcs6...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 10:35 am, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (I will note that my //c is a revision 0, so no UniDisk support for
> > me. No big deal, that's why I'm getting a IIGS. )
>
> The IIc ROM revisions were FF (original), 00 (3.5DISK), 03 (MEMEXP),
> 04 (MEMEXP bugfix) and 05 (IIc+) so if you have a ROM00 you do have
> UniDisk 3.5 support.

Hrm, I forget where I got the "revision 0" nomenclature... I thought
it was the Apple II History, but it doesn't seem to use it. Maybe it
used to in the past or something. (Under that nomenclature, 0 is
original, 1 is the modem bugfix, 2 is the UniDisk, 3 is memexp, 4 is
the memexp bugfix, and 5 is the +.)

Anyway, mine has ROM FF.

David Wilson

On Jan 14, 10:37 pm, Eric Rucker <bhtoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 14, 1:10 am, David Wilson <mcs6...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The IIc ROM revisions were FF (original), 00 (3.5DISK), 03 (MEMEXP),
> > 04 (MEMEXP bugfix) and 05 (IIc+) so if you have a ROM00 you do have
> > UniDisk 3.5 support.
>
> Hrm, I forget where I got the "revision 0" nomenclature... I thought
> it was the Apple II History, but it doesn't seem to use it. Maybe it
> used to in the past or something. (Under that nomenclature, 0 is
> original, 1 is the modem bugfix, 2 is the UniDisk, 3 is memexp, 4 is
> the memexp bugfix, and 5 is the +.)

That is one too many revisions. The modem fix was a hardware change to
the original IIc motherboard. There are 4 motherboards, most of which
can use two ROM revisions.

Original m/b with slow serial port - ROM FF or ROM 00
Original m/b with fixed serial port - ROM FF or ROM 00 (xtal osc
replaces 74LS161)
Memory Expandable m/b - ROM 03 or ROM 04
IIc+ - ROM 05

I have actually put a ROM 04 in my original m/b - it works fine but
without the socket on the m/b I cannot use an Apple IIc memory card.

> Anyway, mine has ROM FF.

Can you burn an EPROM? You can upgrade to a ROM 00 if you want.

Michael J. Mahon

David Empson wrote:
> Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>David Empson wrote:
>>
>>>Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Eric Rucker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The IIc Plus is the fastest machine without modification. Yes, that
>>>>>counts the IIGS.
>>>>
>>>>Just thought I'd point out that the IIc Plus can be modified just by
>>>>changing a crystal oscillator ($2.00) to run at 8MHz, even faster than
>>>>most *accelerated* IIgs's. ;-)
>>>
>>>I thought most accelerated IIgses were 8 MHz or faster. There was a 7
>>>MHz version of the Zip GS, but I'm less familiar with the TransWarp.
>>
>>No, I think that the stock versions were all less than 8MHz, and the
>>non-stock versions are still, I'd bet, in the minority.
>
>
> I bought a ZipGS shortly after they were released. Its original version
> was 8 MHz.
>
> I think they had problems getting 8 MHz CPUs (or maybe they weren't
> operating reliably at 8 MHz), so they reduced the standard speed to 7
> MHz.

I was never much into the IIgs, so I was just going on the occasional
ad I saw or report I read. The only ZipGS's I ever saw were 7MHz. (But
I was an early buyer of the 8MHz Zip Chip. ;-)

Still, the point remains that a $2 crystal oscillator replacement puts
the IIc+ at or above the speed of all but expensive "chipped" IIgs
accelerators.

-michael

NadaPong: Network game demo for Apple II computers!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."