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Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

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Unread 15-12-2013, 08:07 PM   #11
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

I have a CTL TW3 laptop. I tried plugging in the unifying dongle then accessing setup with an MK710 keyboard. The laptop didn't recognize the keyboard until Windows was loaded and running. THAT'S the problem. It also doesn't allow OS selection during boot (the laptop dual-boots W7 and WXP).
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Unread 16-12-2013, 12:00 AM   #12
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by davnel View Post
Rootbear:
Thank you. That set IS a "Unifying" set. Can you access the BIOS setup screen using the K520?
.
Like I said, it works perfectly. I never unplug the dongle. I just turn switches off on the mouse and keyboard. I do have a different motherboard than most people though. MSI H67MS-E43 The BIOS runs linux(pre-installed). It has games and a fail-safe overclocking feature(adjust one setting, other corresponding settings change automagically).
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Unread 16-12-2013, 12:07 AM   #13
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by davnel View Post
I have a CTL TW3 laptop. I tried plugging in the unifying dongle then accessing setup with an MK710 keyboard. The laptop didn't recognize the keyboard until Windows was loaded and running. THAT'S the problem. It also doesn't allow OS selection during boot (the laptop dual-boots W7 and WXP).
.
Did it come with XP? Im only asking as XP didn't support USB to begin with and I suspect if the lappy is old enough to come with XP then it doesn't support USB from the BIOS. If you have an old XP disc around and plan on using it again on older machines, you will need to keep wired keyboard and mouse as well until XP is installed, updated and it then has the required drivers from disc or net for USB devices.
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Unread 16-12-2013, 12:13 AM   #14
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

Note to all:
I'm wrong - big time. Rootbear got me thinking and I ran the following -

Sent to Logitech today:

OK, You win! I'm going to dump a lot of data on you in this message, but I want you to understand what I have, and what I've done. Bottom line: except for my new machine (the Z77X mobo) all other systems recognize and act on the unifying desktop set during boot and OS selection. Only the Z77X system refuses.

Here is the data I accumulated through testing:

System 1 (XP-only Work) Home Built:
Mobo: Foxconn ELA01 (Intel P45 Rev A2)/ICH10R Southbridge
BIOS: AMI V.080015 Dated 09/23/2008
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.00GHz
RAM: 4.0GB DDR2 Kingston PC2-6400 400MHz
OS: Windows XP SP3 fully updated

System 2 (main) Home Built (my problem child):
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H (Intel Ivy Bridge Rev 09/Z77 Southbridge Rev 04
BIOS: AMI V. F14 dated 8/22/2012
CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 (not -K) 3.4GHz
RAM: 32GB DDR3 Kingston KHX1600C10D3/8GX x 4
OS: Dual Boot - Windows 7 Ultimate SP1, Windows 8.1 Pro Both fully updated

System 3 Computer Technology Link (CTL) TW3 Laptop:
Mobo: Custom, Intel i945GM Rev 03/ICH7-M/U Southbridge
BIOS: Phoenix V.Q3C52 dated 12/07/2006
CPU: Intel Core Duo T2500 2.00GHz
RAM: 3GB Kingston PC2-5300 333MHz
OS: Dual-boot - Windows XP Pro SP3, Windows 7 Ult SP1 both fully updated

Unifying Desktop Set:
Keyboard: MK710 (Y-R0006)
Mouse: M705 (M-R0009)
Standard unifying Receiver

USB Wireless Desktop Set:
Keyboard: LX710 (Y-RAP78)
Mouse: MX600 (M-RAZ105)
Receiver: C-UAL52

Tests:
System1 USB only Setup OK Select N/A
Unifying Only Setup OK Select N/A
Unifying with both Setup OK Select N/A

System 2 USB only Setup OK Select OK
Unifying Only Setup NO Select NO
Unifying with both Setup NO Select NO

System 3 USB only Setup OK Select OK
Internal KB/Touchpad Setup OK Select OK
Unifying Only Setup OK Select OK
Unifying with both Setup OK Select OK

As you can see, the problem is mostly mine. Your "unifying" system seems to work well on almost everything. Sorry about the arguments.
Dave

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Oh, well! Live and learn!
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Last edited by davnel; 16-12-2013 at 12:29 AM..
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Unread 16-12-2013, 12:55 AM   #15
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

Rootbear:
This TW3 laptop came with Vista Business. I changed the disk, from 60GB to 640GB and installed XP Pro, then Win 7, with new drivers from the mfrs. I got a deal on two of them because the wireless adapters wouldn't work. Turns out that CTL had changed the wireless adapters to newer ones, and the original drivers didn't work, and nobody noticed! I got new drivers from Intel and everything's cool. Neat!!
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Unread 16-12-2013, 01:19 AM   #16
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by davnel View Post
Rootbear:
This TW3 laptop came with Vista Business. I changed the disk, from 60GB to 640GB and installed XP Pro, then Win 7, with new drivers from the mfrs. I got a deal on two of them because the wireless adapters wouldn't work. Turns out that CTL had changed the wireless adapters to newer ones, and the original drivers didn't work, and nobody noticed! I got new drivers from Intel and everything's cool. Neat!!
.
Glad to hear! Was just going to pass this on: GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket 1155 - GA-Z77X-UD5H (rev. 1.0)
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Unread 16-12-2013, 01:58 AM   #17
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

As a result of the testing, I have a couple of good bits of news. First, the pairing data IS stored in the dongle. I moved a dongle that had been paired with the T650 touchpad and the N305 keypad, to the laptop. The pairing followed the dongle. Because of that, there is no reason the Unifying Desktop shouldn't work during boot and OS selection, unless your motherboard is weird, like mine. Ya know, that almost has to be BIOS setup issue. I'm gonna look at it again.

Second, since the pairing data is in the dongle, and since the devices seem to know that, you can't pair a device with a dongle until the previous pairing data, to another dongle, is removed, which happens in the "Advanced" window in the Unifying Software.

Rootbear:
Thanks for the link. I have the Rev 1.1 board, which basically means it comes with the V. F14 BIOS, and the HP_PWR connector is not loaded in the board. That is some sort of indicator LED for the Z77 chipset and is normally used only during initial test of the board.

This has been a very interesting journey, and I learned a bunch, not the least of which is never make assumptions about hardware. They always come back to bite you.

====================================
UPDATE (140111):

This will be the final posting from me on this thread.

After much research and testing of the Gigabyte motherboard, I have the following conclusions.

1. The "unifying" system works as advertised on all legacy BIOS setups, and on some UEFI setups.
2. My GA-Z77X-UD5H mobo is a little strange. SOME of the USB 2.0 ports and SOME of the USB 3.0 ports are active during POST. Some of them are not.
3. The USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports selected for the unifying dongle were both inactive during POST, thus the problem.
4. I have selected an active port for the dongle and everything works fine.

Test Procedure:

1. During POST, enter Setup.
2. Using a USB Flash drive, with an indicator light, test each port on the motherboard.
3. Note which ports are recognized (light up) and which aren't.
4. This applies to both the USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports. A USB 2.0 flash drive will work on both if the ports are active.
5. Place critical dongles in active ports.
6. If you have a dual-boot setup, with a boot selector provided by Microsoft or GRUB, test the ports when it is onscreen (hit an arrow key to lock the screen).
7. Once the OS of your choice loads up and is running, retest all ports to verify that they are working properly. You may find a dead one. I had a two port USB 3.0 PCI-e adapter that was totally dead - no activity at all. It got removed, of course.

Bottom line: Logitech's unifying system works well. The devices need to be paired with the dongle BEFORE testing (ie: it doesn't work unpaired). Multiple dongles for one device doesn't work. Your mileage may vary depending on the motherboard. Pairing data seems to be stored both in the dongle AND in the device.

Good luck.

.

Last edited by davnel; 11-01-2014 at 10:09 PM.. Reason: 140111 Update
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Unread 15-07-2015, 04:46 PM   #18
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Re: Logitech "Unifying" Keyboard boot problem

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Ithe first thibg to remember is to make sure legacy usb keyboard emulation is enabled in bios/uefi setup. However, ive had a similar experience even with that set right. The UEFI issues are consistent with my experiences. It works fine on a Dell ivybridge Core i3 system. That one has UEFI. It also works fine on a ECS Core 2 Duo E6600 system. However, its erratic during boot up on my Intel DG965WH system. Its a Intel branded 965 express chip set mb with a Q6600, 8gb ram using onboard video. It uses a UEFI with a comparability support module to appear as a legacy BIOS. (UEFI functionality is hidden from the user) The keyboard works at startup, but usually, soon as you press a few keys, it stops. It acts like CTL is stuck. Ctl-alt-del still works. If you boot into dos, you can see the characters are things like ctl-letter combinations. The arrow keys and enter key,cetc, send random junk. It seems plugging in another kB sometimes corrects things.

It seems to me to be some sort of incompatibility between the USB legacy kB emulation in the firmware and the dongle. Unplugging and replugging the dongle does not seem to help, it probably recognizes that its the same and uses the same data corrupted data structures when it reconnect. Its definetly a compatibility issue with some BIOS and/or UEFI implementations.

Clearly, its part logitechs fault and part mb vendors.The dongle probably implements the HID protocols in a way that's either uncommon, or "not quite right". The firmware is unable to properly handle this. I'd call it a hardware issue exposing a firmware bug. However, since I've never seen another KB do this, I'd call it logitecs problem. They should fix it, because every other kB works fine.

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