Mark Space

Enteng wrote:

> As much as I'd like to code some more, I think my knowledge of Java is
> not enough. It feels like I'm still missing some things. I want to
> contribute to projects someday I just don't know if I'm good enough to
> (or how to find one).

Try Sang Shin's intro to programming course. He does a very reasonable
job of starting you off with very small programs, then he continues with
reasonable small examples for you to extend and test your knowledge. He
also has NetBeans projects with all the examples so you can start by
just looking at the code.

The class is now to far advanced for you to catch up, I think. But you
can always just work on the examples, since everything is posted on the
web. There's no "lecture" or other hands on by Shin, so you aren't
missing anything.

Shin's web site:
http://javapassion.com/

And the intro course:
http://www.javapassion.com/javaintro/

Roedy Green

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:12:30 -0800 (PST), Enteng <entengk@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Hi guys! I've finished reading Beginning Programming with Java For
>Dummies today and I still want to learn more about java. What books
>would you guys suggest that I read next?
>
>I'm planning on reading "Just Java" by by Peter van der Linden and
>then go on reading "Thinking in Java" next.
>
>Do you guys have any suggestions? I'd really appreciate them. Thanks!

You have to alternate reading with doing. Just reading gives the
ILLUSION you understand and it can get you in deep long-lasting
trouble if you don't test your assumptions with experiments.

See http://mindprod.com/project/projects.html

Try out some of the coding projects with difficulty 0 or 1, or make up
you own.

IRRC Peter's book has example problems. They would be great to tackle
too.

After you have done a bunch, you might reread your first book to see
if you glossed over something, or if the words have deeper
significance.

Then keep going with your reading. Both your choices are excellent.

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/gettingstarted.html
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Enteng

Oh BTW I got a question that's been bugging me. Is it ok to learn from
old Java books (like circa 2001)? I got access to Java: An
Introduction to Computer Science & Programming (2nd Edition) by
Walter Savitch, is it any good?

The Dummies book that I've read is easy to read but it has no
examples. What I did was read his example programs and at the start of
the next chapter I try to code the examples that I've read.

I got to ask you guys when you were starting out programming and at my
stage, how did you get better? I mean maybe you did write a lot of
code but how did you know what to write? How did you know what to
write next? What lead you into becoming a better programmer that you
are right now?

Jeff Higgins

Enteng wrote

> ... I mean maybe you did write a lot of
> code but how did you know what to write? How did you know what to
> write next? What lead you into becoming a better programmer that you
> are right now?

What interests you?
graphics, imaging,
mathematics, physics,
language, writing, text processing,
data collection, manipulation,
games, becoming a programmer, etc., etc.

write lots of code
read lots of code
read lots of ...
write lots of code
read lots of programming group discussions
read lots of ...
write lots of code
ask here when you get stuck, include SScce, use twc.jnlp
read lots of code
write lots of code
take a break, repeat

Lew

Enteng wrote:
> Oh BTW I got a question that's been bugging me. Is it ok to learn from
> old Java books (like circa 2001)? I got access to Java: An
> Introduction to Computer Science & Programming (2nd Edition) by
> Walter Savitch, is it any good?

Why not read the Sun tutorials on java.sun.com?

Old books are all right, but if they don't cover at least Java 5 they might
lead you astray in:
- Swing programming;
- concurrent programming generally;
- suggesting that you use Vector or Hashtable instead of the newer List or Map
implementations;
- optimization techniques.

So disregard those matters in any book that doesn't cover Java 5 or later.

Seriously, the Sun tutorials are most likely the best place to go next.

IBM DeveloperWorks has a whole bunch of great Java programming articles.

And always remember, GIYF.

--
Lew

Roedy Green

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:54:45 -0800 (PST), Enteng <entengk@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Oh BTW I got a question that's been bugging me. Is it ok to learn from
>old Java books (like circa 2001)? I got access to Java: An
>Introduction to Computer Science & Programming (2nd Edition) by
>Walter Savitch, is it any good?

Generally old books are fine. It is not that Java has changed, just
been added to. You can save quite a bit of money by acquiring books
even a year out of date. You may find people here willing to hand
over their old books for the cost of shipping.

The books help you get the overall picture. You read the javadoc
about specific classes for the details, so you don't need perfectly
detailed texts.

The one thing though is Generics have in a major way redefined the way
you do Collections. I would in parallel read essays linked to at
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/generics.html
when you get to the sections on Collections in your texts.
Also have a good look as some of Sun's code and how it uses Generics.
They are much more complicated than you might at first imagine.

I could make an argument why you should learn the older AWT before you
tackle Swing. It is not as overwhelming. It focuses on the meat
rather than the decoration.

Swing does pretty well everything AWT does with minor variations, plus
a ton of stuff to get finer control of the look. You can learn the
differences from
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/swing.html#AWTEQUIVALENTS
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Roedy Green

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:36:04 -0500, "Jeff Higgins"
<oohiggins@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :

>What interests you?

This is really important. If you do projects that feel artificial and
pointless, they will destroy your motivation. If you do projects you
can hardly wait to see working, you will put out super effort to break
through the difficulties.

Consider the "problems" they gave you in elementary school. When I
taught kids at computer summer camp, the problem was to create a
primitive video game. The kids chased me around begging me to teach
them trig that I had "leaked" to another student.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Enteng

On Nov 16, 1:21 pm, Roedy Green <see_webs...@mindprod.com.invalid>
wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:54:45 -0800 (PST), Enteng <ente...@gmail.com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
> >Oh BTW I got a question that's been bugging me. Is it ok to learn from
> >old Java books (like circa 2001)? I got access to Java: An
> >Introduction to Computer Science & Programming (2nd Edition) by
> >Walter Savitch, is it any good?
>
> Generally old books are fine. It is not that Java has changed, just
> been added to. You can save quite a bit of money by acquiring books

Won't I form bad programming habits by reading old books?

> even a year out of date. You may find people here willing to hand
> over their old books for the cost of shipping.

That would be great! I'm happy to spend for shipping if anyone's
interested

>
> The books help you get the overall picture. You read the javadoc
> about specific classes for the details, so you don't need perfectly
> detailed texts.
>
> The one thing though is Generics have in a major way redefined the way
> you do Collections. I would in parallel read essays linked to athttp://mindprod.com/jgloss/generics.html
> when you get to the sections on Collections in your texts.
> Also have a good look as some of Sun's code and how it uses Generics.
> They are much more complicated than you might at first imagine.
>

Ok I'll keep that in mind. Your site is quite useful.

> I could make an argument why you should learn the older AWT before you
> tackle Swing. It is not as overwhelming. It focuses on the meat
> rather than the decoration.
>
> Swing does pretty well everything AWT does with minor variations, plus
> a ton of stuff to get finer control of the look. You can learn the
> differences fromhttp://mindprod.com/jgloss/swing.html#AWTEQUIVALENTS
> --
> Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
> The Java Glossaryhttp://mindprod.com

Roedy Green

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:26:08 -0800 (PST), Enteng <entengk@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Won't I form bad programming habits by reading old books?

No. You develop bad habits by reading trashy books, new or old.

If you got a very very old book, it would show you the JDK 1.0 event
model which has drastically changed.

If you read about Collections before generics were invented, and
refused to learn generics, that would get you in trouble.

The important stuff, how to decompose problems, how to name, how to
document, has not changed at all.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

Enteng

Do you guys know a site where I can learn java source codes from?