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Power surge

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Unread 11-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #1
barbibiz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Power surge

Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a power
surge,
I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was massive
lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit a
pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is prehistoric) in
our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the house, major lighting show
to rival any concert..
Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was using a
surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the money..There was a small
electrical crackle at the connection where the telephone jack and the ac
adapter are. Immediately it went off, a blue screen appeared with writing on
it (english)then it went off all together.
Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its compaq
name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP pro
disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean install, then it
stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to read
before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a problem ( der)
and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI compliant which I believe is
to do with the hibernation mode.
I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as yet it
hasnt..
I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as well..
Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to explain other
than the long way!
thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
Felicity



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Unread 11-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #2
Euan Kerr
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

"Frank Schweppe" <tjakkeli*************> wrote in news:41c5f129$0
$26544$626a14ce@news.free.fr:

> the house has whole-house surge protection for AC and the phone

line,

I'd be interested to hear w_tom's comments on your misfortune.
 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #3
Quaoar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

barbibiz wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a
> power surge,
> I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was
> massive lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit
> a pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is
> prehistoric) in our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the
> house, major lighting show to rival any concert..
> Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was
> using a surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the
> money..There was a small electrical crackle at the connection where
> the telephone jack and the ac adapter are. Immediately it went off, a
> blue screen appeared with writing on it (english)then it went off all
> together.
> Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its
> compaq name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the
> Windows XP pro disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean
> install, then it stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one,
> that I wasnt able to read before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen
> said that the was a problem ( der) and the problem was the bios was
> not fully ACPI compliant which I believe is to do with the
> hibernation mode.
> I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as
> yet it hasnt..
> I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as
> well.. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to
> explain other than the long way!
> thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> Felicity


First, find the reset button on the case and when powered, well, reset
the computer. Next restart and enter BIOS setup (F2, Del, Esc, or
whatever the manual says), press the key several times immediately at
the start of the boot process. Check all of the settings in the BIOS
and even if nothing has changed, save the settings on exit.

Once the computer has started, if it will, then open a command prompt
and type: sfc /scannow. This will check all of the system files. Have
your Windows CD handy, or if the folder /i386/ is installed, you won't
need the CD.

Next, from a command prompt, type: chkdsk /r for checkdisk to review the
HD structure and repair errors.

Next, download the HD vendor's drive fitness utility and run it. It may
require running from a floppy. Download memtest86.exe, and run it in
full diagnostic mode to verify RAM integrity.

Of course, this presupposes that you can get the laptop to boot at all.

Q


 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:21 PM   #4
Quaoar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

barbibiz wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a
> power surge,
> I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was
> massive lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit
> a pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is
> prehistoric) in our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the
> house, major lighting show to rival any concert..
> Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was
> using a surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the
> money..There was a small electrical crackle at the connection where
> the telephone jack and the ac adapter are. Immediately it went off, a
> blue screen appeared with writing on it (english)then it went off all
> together.
> Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its
> compaq name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the
> Windows XP pro disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean
> install, then it stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one,
> that I wasnt able to read before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen
> said that the was a problem ( der) and the problem was the bios was
> not fully ACPI compliant which I believe is to do with the
> hibernation mode.
> I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as
> yet it hasnt..
> I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as
> well.. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to
> explain other than the long way!
> thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> Felicity


First, find the reset button on the case and when powered, well, reset
the computer. Next restart and enter BIOS setup (F2, Del, Esc, or
whatever the manual says), press the key several times immediately at
the start of the boot process. Check all of the settings in the BIOS
and even if nothing has changed, save the settings on exit.

Once the computer has started, if it will, then open a command prompt
and type: sfc /scannow. This will check all of the system files. Have
your Windows CD handy, or if the folder /i386/ is installed, you won't
need the CD.

Next, from a command prompt, type: chkdsk /r for checkdisk to review the
HD structure and repair errors.

Next, download the HD vendor's drive fitness utility and run it. It may
require running from a floppy. Download memtest86.exe, and run it in
full diagnostic mode to verify RAM integrity.

Of course, this presupposes that you can get the laptop to boot at all.

Q


 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:21 PM   #5
w_tom
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

The purpose of surge protection is no damage even from
direct strikes. Even near misses are either trivial or
actually a direct strike.

Cited previously are typical problems associated with surge
protectors. First, surge protector is not surge protection.
Even the 'whole house' protector is not protection.
Unfortunately humans only think in terms of what they see.
Surge protection is earth ground - not observed by the human
eye and therefore ignored. If a surge causes damage, then a
followup analysis begins with surge protection - the single
point earth ground and connections to that earth ground. In
both cases, this was not even mentioned.

Again, one can install all the protectors in the world. But
without the one and the most critical component - earth ground
- then a surge protection system still will not work. A surge
protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Will that silly RJ-45 protector stop what miles of sky could
not? One must 'wish' that "surge protector = surge
protection". Reality: no earth ground means no effective
protection. Wall receptacle is not earth ground. Again, both
cases never once mentioned earthing apparently using the
assumption that "surge protector = surge protection".

Second, if damage occurs, the human must learn why he
permitted damage to happen. As in murder investigations, the
best evidence is a dead body. What was the incoming and
outgoing path through that laptop? What was damaged - a
description at the component level for each laptop?

Third, most damning are facts not mentioned in either post.
What was the single point earth ground? How was the 'whole
house' protector connected to that single point earth ground?
For example, was the earthing wire bundled with other wires
(bad)? Was connection 'less than 10 feet' (necessary)? Any
splices or sharp bends (bad)? Was the phone line and cable
also connected less than 10 feet to same ground (required)?
Without answers to these questions, then we don't even know if
the laptop had any protection. Other surge protectors mean
nothing. To say surge protection existed, one starts by
describing the 'critical' earth ground system.

Fourth, this we do know. A surge found a complete path into
and out of the laptop. We know the building has a defective
surge protection 'system' because electronics were damaged.
Even that RJ-45 phone line protector does nothing without a
'less than 10 foot' connection to *protection*. The protector
connected to a wall outlet is not earthed.

The latter case of laptop and multifunctional printer damage
even with "a surge protector/UPS of good reputation" suggests
suspect the worst. Those retail UPSes only have good
reputation among myth purveyors who promote junk science. A
"surge protector / UPS with good reputation" is a building
wide system with a critical 'less than 10 foot' connection to
earth. No plug-in UPS has a good reputation - as damage
demonstrates. Coincidentally, plug-in UPSes don't even claim
to protect from typically destructive surges. It did exactly
as its specs claim. Where is the good reputation? Only from
myths that also claim "surge protector = surge protection".

What is not mentioned is most damning in posts from Frank
Schweppe or barbibiz? Earth ground. When one thinks a
plug-in UPS has a good reputation as a surge protector and
does not even discuss earthing, then the author is a most
likely reason for failure. No earth ground means no effective
protection exists - no matter what those myth purveyors claim.

Too many unanswered questions to say exactly why damage
happened in each case. However an investigation starts with
THE surge protection - including 'primary' protection in
pictures at:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

In both cases, missing statements about THE most important
component - earth ground - are most telling. Without first
describing the surge protection 'system', then neither post
tells us if surge protection even existed. Clearly damage
occurred meaning the surge protection 'system' is defective or
missing. But what is missing? Neither post even mentions
surge protection - single point earth ground. Does it exist
or is it just improperly installed? "IT" is not even
mentioned.

Euan Kerr wrote:
> "Frank Schweppe" <tjakkeli*************> wrote in news:41c5f129$0
> $26544$626a14ce@news.free.fr:
>> the house has whole-house surge protection for AC and the
>> phone line,

>
> I'd be interested to hear w_tom's comments on your misfortune.

 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:31 PM   #6
primatech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

Chances are very great that your modem has sustained damage. Not sure
of the location on that particular machine (you didnt mention that it is
a Presario 800) but first you should remove the modem and then try
booting.



barbibiz wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a power
> surge,
> I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was massive
> lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit a
> pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is prehistoric) in
> our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the house, major lighting show
> to rival any concert..
> Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was using a
> surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the money..There was a small
> electrical crackle at the connection where the telephone jack and the ac
> adapter are. Immediately it went off, a blue screen appeared with writing on
> it (english)then it went off all together.
> Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its compaq
> name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP pro
> disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean install, then it
> stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to read
> before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a problem ( der)
> and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI compliant which I believe is
> to do with the hibernation mode.
> I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as yet it
> hasnt..
> I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as well..
> Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to explain other
> than the long way!
> thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> Felicity
>
>

 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:32 PM   #7
primatech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

Chances are very great that your modem has sustained damage. Not sure
of the location on that particular machine (you didnt mention that it is
a Presario 800) but first you should remove the modem and then try
booting.



barbibiz wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a power
> surge,
> I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was massive
> lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit a
> pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is prehistoric) in
> our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the house, major lighting show
> to rival any concert..
> Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was using a
> surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the money..There was a small
> electrical crackle at the connection where the telephone jack and the ac
> adapter are. Immediately it went off, a blue screen appeared with writing on
> it (english)then it went off all together.
> Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its compaq
> name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP pro
> disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean install, then it
> stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to read
> before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a problem ( der)
> and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI compliant which I believe is
> to do with the hibernation mode.
> I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as yet it
> hasnt..
> I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as well..
> Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to explain other
> than the long way!
> thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> Felicity
>
>

 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:33 PM   #8
barbibiz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

Thankyou, that is very interesting..
It is not a presario just a Compaq business notebook 800..(18m.o) Yes the
phone jack and the ac adapter connection are next to each other.. None of
the other electrical things nearby were affected, like the TV it did not go
off.....
I shall remove the modem and see what happens..
thanks again!
felicity

"primatech" <graeme@NOSPAMprimatechnologies.com.au> wrote in message
news:Fi7vd.70596$K7.49169@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Chances are very great that your modem has sustained damage. Not sure
> of the location on that particular machine (you didnt mention that it is
> a Presario 800) but first you should remove the modem and then try
> booting.
>
>
>
> barbibiz wrote:
> > Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a

power
> > surge,
> > I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was

massive
> > lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit a
> > pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is prehistoric)

in
> > our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the house, major lighting

show
> > to rival any concert..
> > Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was

using a
> > surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the money..There was a

small
> > electrical crackle at the connection where the telephone jack and the ac
> > adapter are. Immediately it went off, a blue screen appeared with

writing on
> > it (english)then it went off all together.
> > Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its

compaq
> > name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP

pro
> > disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean install, then it
> > stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to

read
> > before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a problem (

der)
> > and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI compliant which I

believe is
> > to do with the hibernation mode.
> > I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as yet

it
> > hasnt..
> > I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as

well..
> > Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to explain other
> > than the long way!
> > thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> > Felicity
> >
> >



 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:33 PM   #9
barbibiz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

Thankyou, that is very interesting..
It is not a presario just a Compaq business notebook 800..(18m.o) Yes the
phone jack and the ac adapter connection are next to each other.. None of
the other electrical things nearby were affected, like the TV it did not go
off.....
I shall remove the modem and see what happens..
thanks again!
felicity

"primatech" <graeme@NOSPAMprimatechnologies.com.au> wrote in message
news:Fi7vd.70596$K7.49169@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Chances are very great that your modem has sustained damage. Not sure
> of the location on that particular machine (you didnt mention that it is
> a Presario 800) but first you should remove the modem and then try
> booting.
>
>
>
> barbibiz wrote:
> > Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with a

power
> > surge,
> > I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram) yesterday there was

massive
> > lightening and thunder in our area. A something or rather hit a
> > pole(telephone wires come over this pole-yes I know it is prehistoric)

in
> > our back yard about 10feet or 3 metres from the house, major lighting

show
> > to rival any concert..
> > Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I was

using a
> > surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the money..There was a

small
> > electrical crackle at the connection where the telephone jack and the ac
> > adapter are. Immediately it went off, a blue screen appeared with

writing on
> > it (english)then it went off all together.
> > Since then it has been inconsistent, some times it comes on with its

compaq
> > name, sometimes it does not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP

pro
> > disc and then it started to load as if it was a clean install, then it
> > stopped and a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to

read
> > before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a problem (

der)
> > and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI compliant which I

believe is
> > to do with the hibernation mode.
> > I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears as yet

it
> > hasnt..
> > I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing as

well..
> > Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other way to explain other
> > than the long way!
> > thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> > Felicity
> >
> >



 
Unread 11-12-2007, 01:36 PM   #10
w_tom
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Power surge

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First understand why the laptop was damaged. Surge would be
an electrical path that connects cloud to earth. Your laptop
completed a destructive circuit. Transient entered and left
laptop via an incoming and outgoing path. Only after a surge
is passing through everything in that path, then something in
that path fails. Had the computer not had both incoming or
outgoing path, then no damage would have resulted - which
would explain why other items were not damaged.

A most common destructive path is incoming on AC electric
and outgoing through phone line. Phone line already has an
effective 'whole house' protector installed free by the telco
which is why surges typically don't enter on phone lines. AC
electric does not typically have effective protection. Worse,
a plug-in protector can even make damage easier - provide the
transients with more destructive paths through laptop. IOW
the plug-in protector did exactly as the manufacturer claims
once we read the detailed specifications.

Most often, failure is an off hook relay inside modem. A
most common error message from this surge is "No Dialtone
Detected". However your symptoms suggest other damage.

Do not try to fix anything yet. Unfortunately too late.
Hardware damage may have now damaged Windows XP. Your's is a
responsible computer manufacturer. Therefore run the
comprehensive diagnostics provided free by Compaq. Either
located on the hard drive or must be downloaded from the
Compaq (HP) website. First get facts which is what those
diagnostics would provide.

Components that should not be damaged include disk drive,
CPU, and memory. Each had an incoming path but no outgoing
path - therefore no damage.

In the meantime, learn from your failure. First an
ineffective surge protector is quickly identified by 1) no
dedicated (and less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground
AND 2) manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. No
earth ground means no effective protection.

Second, 'whole house' protector for AC electric (the most
common source of destructive transients) costs about $1 per
protected appliance. It can even be purchased in Home Depot
(Intermatic IG1240RC). But your building earth ground may
need be upgraded or exceed to post 1990 National Electrical
Code. No earth ground means no effective protection. No way
about that well proven (long before WWII) principle.

The 'whole house' protector is secondary protection.
Primary protection was out on the pole (if not compromised).
View these pictures to find what to look for:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Further details on how damage can happen and how to avoid
future problems: "RJ-11 line protection?" on 30 Dec 2003
through 12 Jan 2004 in pdx.computing at
http://tinyurl.com/2hl53 or "strange problem after power
surge/thunderstorm" in comp.dcom.modems on 31 Mar 2003 at
http://tinyurl.com/2gumt

barbibiz wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience with a laptop that has been hit with
> a power surge, I have compaq 800 notebook,(20gig.. 256meg ram)
> yesterday there was massive lightening and thunder in our area. A
> something or rather hit a pole(telephone wires come over this
> pole-yes I know it is prehistoric) in our back yard about 10feet or
> 3 metres from the house, major lighting show to rival any concert..
> Unfortunately I was using the laptop when this weather hit and I
> was using a surge protectortoo obviously they are not worth the
> money..There was a small electrical crackle at the connection
> where the telephone jack and the ac adapter are. Immediately it
> went off, a blue screen appeared with writing on it (english)then
> it went off all together. Since then it has been inconsistent,
> some times it comes on with its compaq name, sometimes it does
> not come on at all. I put in the Windows XP pro disc and then it
> started to load as if it was a clean install, then it stopped and
> a blue screen appeared (the same one, that I wasnt able to read
> before,..I think) Anyway the blue screen said that the was a
> problem ( der) and the problem was the bios was not fully ACPI
> compliant which I believe is to do with the hibernation mode.
> I have tried to start it again to see if the blue screen appears
> as yet it hasnt..
> I think there might be a problem with the power and battery thing
> as well.. Any suggestions? Sorry for the long blurb, no other
> way to explain other than the long way!
> thanks in advance to anyone with some good ideas
> Felicity


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