Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca wrote:

>
> Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
> an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
> beeps, and there is still no display... what the??

OK, so you've got the P5KC back from RMA ?

You can start very simply at first.

1) Connect the power supply main connector, to the motherboard.
2) Connect the front power switch, to the appropriate two pins
on the PANEL header.
3) Now, plug in the power supply. When you push the power button
on the front of the computer case, you should hear the power
supply come on, and the PSU fan should start to spin and keep
spinning. You should even be able to press the button a second
time, and switch it off again.

That is a motherboard with nothing plugged into it, and in that
configuration, it should be able to switch the power supply on and
off.

Page 37 here, will give you the pinout of the new Startech supply.
This document is suitable for the new 24 pin power supplies for
desktop use.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf

If you still aren't getting anywhere, you can do a test on the power
supply. Now, some people I've had conversations with, don't really
feel comfortable doing this test without a load on the PSU. If you
have a couple of old hard drives, ones you don't care about, you
could connect them to a couple 1x4 Molex plugs on the power supply
to be tested. That will put a bit of load on the supply for testing.

To turn on an ATX supply, when it is not connected to a motherboard,
you connect the PS_ON# signal (green) to an adjacent COM (black)
wire. You can use a paper clip, to make a shorting plug, to insert
in the two adjacent holes. (Only a tiny current flows in the paper
clip, so it doesn't get hot, and won't shock you, as it is at a 5 volt
level.) For as long as the paper clip makes contact, the PSU fan
should spin, and the couple disk drives you connected as a load,
should spin up and make a bit of sound. (Since I have a homemade
load box, with power resistors to load the PSU, I can do this more
easily.)

So that would be a simple test that the PSU can be switched on.
If the PSU responds to the paper clip, and yet will not switch
on, when a motherboard and associated front power switch are
used, then it could be the motherboard which is at fault.

Also, if you think the front power switch is bad, you can swap
the reset and power switch cables, and just use the reset button
as if it was a power switch. Both buttons work the same way, so
are interchangeable for testing purposes.

If you are able to pass the "motherboard + PSU switch-on test",
then you're ready to add more components to the motherboard.
The CPU would be next, and also the computer case speaker would
be a good thing to add. The speaker is useless without the CPU,
which is why I didn't add it for the first test.

As you add components, listen to the beep codes on the speaker.
With the CPU, heatsink/fan installed, but no RAM, a good thing to
hear would be the "missing RAM" beep code. Adding RAM as the
next test, gives "missing video" beep code. Adding the video card
and monitor, means moving on from the speaker, and watching the
monitor screen, for any more error codes. The beep codes will help
you decide, whether the computer is proceeding down the correct
path in the "testing flow chart", if you can picture that
chart in your mind's eye.

I've built two computers, by following these tests (even though
I suspected the components were good). I actually build up the
whole computer, and boot it while it sits on the table top.
Because then I know everything is ready to go. Then I can
assemble the computer in a case, confident that it'll work.
To do that, you need a large, clear area to work, with no
little kids around :-)

HTH,
Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
> > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
> > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
> > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
> > supplies I tried.
>
> > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
> > all I needed was a new PSU.
>
> > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
> > wich is composed of:
> > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
> > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
> > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
> > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
> > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
>
> > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
> > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
>
> > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
> > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
> > 450W with these voltage outputs:
> > +3.3V: 30A
> > +5V: 45A
> > +12V1: 17A
> > And these current outputs:
> > +12V2: 16A
> > -12V: 1A
> > +5Vsb: 2.5A
> > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
> > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
> > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
> > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
> > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
> > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
> > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
> > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
> > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
> > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
> > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
>
> > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
> > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
> > not showing any display.
>
> > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
> > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
> > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
> > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
> > and where the manual says not to touch.
>
> > thanks again,
>
> > Marco
>
> Return the motherboard and get another one.
> Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
>
> Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
> they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
> multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
> load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
> I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
> voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
> like that for hobbyist usage.
>
> As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
> "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
> hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
> in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
> process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
> of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
> leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
>
> Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
> contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
> rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
> to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
> to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
> household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
> kind of thing.
>
> To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
> good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
> it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
> stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
> about.
>
> And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
> example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
> how the processor is constructed.
>
> These are some instructions at Intel:
>
> http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...oducts/desktop...
>
> "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
> material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
> a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
>
> Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
> a good job or not.
>
> Paul

Hi Paul,

I've just received my motherboard returned from the store, who got it
from Asus RMA service. I tried putting on the CPU, the graphics and
one memory chip and still got no display at all, absolutely nothing,
no clue. I've been waiting for a month for my motherboard and it
wasn't the problem.. I'm really getting tired of this. Do you have ANY
idea at all?

thanks

Marco

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Dec 5, 11:50 pm, dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> > >> header.
>
> > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> > >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> > >> header.
>
> > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> > >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
> > > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
> > > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
> > > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
> > > supplies I tried.
>
> > > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
> > > all I needed was a new PSU.
>
> > > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
> > > wich is composed of:
> > > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
> > > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
> > > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
> > > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
> > > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
>
> > > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
> > > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
>
> > > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
> > > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
> > > 450W with these voltage outputs:
> > > +3.3V: 30A
> > > +5V: 45A
> > > +12V1: 17A
> > > And these current outputs:
> > > +12V2: 16A
> > > -12V: 1A
> > > +5Vsb: 2.5A
> > > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
> > > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
> > > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
> > > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
> > > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
> > > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
> > > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
> > > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
> > > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
> > > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
> > > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
>
> > > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
> > > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
> > > not showing any display.
>
> > > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
> > > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
> > > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
> > > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
> > > and where the manual says not to touch.
>
> > > thanks again,
>
> > > Marco
>
> > Return the motherboard and get another one.
> > Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
>
> > Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
> > they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
> > multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
> > load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
> > I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
> > voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
> > like that for hobbyist usage.
>
> > As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
> > "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
> > hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
> > in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
> > process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
> > of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
> > leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
>
> > Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
> > contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
> > rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
> > to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
> > to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
> > household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
> > kind of thing.
>
> > To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
> > good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
> > it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
> > stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
> > about.
>
> > And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
> > example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
> > how the processor is constructed.
>
> > These are some instructions at Intel:
>
> >http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...oducts/desktop...
>
> > "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
> > material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
> > a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
>
> > Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
> > a good job or not.
>
> > Paul
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I've just received ...
>
> read more >>

Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
beeps, and there is still no display... what the??

Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca wrote:

>
> Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
> an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
> beeps, and there is still no display... what the??

OK, so you've got the P5KC back from RMA ?

You can start very simply at first.

1) Connect the power supply main connector, to the motherboard.
2) Connect the front power switch, to the appropriate two pins
on the PANEL header.
3) Now, plug in the power supply. When you push the power button
on the front of the computer case, you should hear the power
supply come on, and the PSU fan should start to spin and keep
spinning. You should even be able to press the button a second
time, and switch it off again.

That is a motherboard with nothing plugged into it, and in that
configuration, it should be able to switch the power supply on and
off.

Page 37 here, will give you the pinout of the new Startech supply.
This document is suitable for the new 24 pin power supplies for
desktop use.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf

If you still aren't getting anywhere, you can do a test on the power
supply. Now, some people I've had conversations with, don't really
feel comfortable doing this test without a load on the PSU. If you
have a couple of old hard drives, ones you don't care about, you
could connect them to a couple 1x4 Molex plugs on the power supply
to be tested. That will put a bit of load on the supply for testing.

To turn on an ATX supply, when it is not connected to a motherboard,
you connect the PS_ON# signal (green) to an adjacent COM (black)
wire. You can use a paper clip, to make a shorting plug, to insert
in the two adjacent holes. (Only a tiny current flows in the paper
clip, so it doesn't get hot, and won't shock you, as it is at a 5 volt
level.) For as long as the paper clip makes contact, the PSU fan
should spin, and the couple disk drives you connected as a load,
should spin up and make a bit of sound. (Since I have a homemade
load box, with power resistors to load the PSU, I can do this more
easily.)

So that would be a simple test that the PSU can be switched on.
If the PSU responds to the paper clip, and yet will not switch
on, when a motherboard and associated front power switch are
used, then it could be the motherboard which is at fault.

Also, if you think the front power switch is bad, you can swap
the reset and power switch cables, and just use the reset button
as if it was a power switch. Both buttons work the same way, so
are interchangeable for testing purposes.

If you are able to pass the "motherboard + PSU switch-on test",
then you're ready to add more components to the motherboard.
The CPU would be next, and also the computer case speaker would
be a good thing to add. The speaker is useless without the CPU,
which is why I didn't add it for the first test.

As you add components, listen to the beep codes on the speaker.
With the CPU, heatsink/fan installed, but no RAM, a good thing to
hear would be the "missing RAM" beep code. Adding RAM as the
next test, gives "missing video" beep code. Adding the video card
and monitor, means moving on from the speaker, and watching the
monitor screen, for any more error codes. The beep codes will help
you decide, whether the computer is proceeding down the correct
path in the "testing flow chart", if you can picture that
chart in your mind's eye.

I've built two computers, by following these tests (even though
I suspected the components were good). I actually build up the
whole computer, and boot it while it sits on the table top.
Because then I know everything is ready to go. Then I can
assemble the computer in a case, confident that it'll work.
To do that, you need a large, clear area to work, with no
little kids around :-)

HTH,
Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
> > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
> > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
> > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
> > supplies I tried.
>
> > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
> > all I needed was a new PSU.
>
> > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
> > wich is composed of:
> > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
> > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
> > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
> > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
> > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
>
> > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
> > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
>
> > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
> > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
> > 450W with these voltage outputs:
> > +3.3V: 30A
> > +5V: 45A
> > +12V1: 17A
> > And these current outputs:
> > +12V2: 16A
> > -12V: 1A
> > +5Vsb: 2.5A
> > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
> > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
> > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
> > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
> > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
> > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
> > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
> > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
> > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
> > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
> > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
>
> > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
> > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
> > not showing any display.
>
> > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
> > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
> > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
> > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
> > and where the manual says not to touch.
>
> > thanks again,
>
> > Marco
>
> Return the motherboard and get another one.
> Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
>
> Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
> they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
> multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
> load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
> I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
> voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
> like that for hobbyist usage.
>
> As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
> "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
> hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
> in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
> process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
> of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
> leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
>
> Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
> contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
> rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
> to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
> to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
> household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
> kind of thing.
>
> To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
> good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
> it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
> stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
> about.
>
> And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
> example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
> how the processor is constructed.
>
> These are some instructions at Intel:
>
> http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...oducts/desktop...
>
> "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
> material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
> a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
>
> Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
> a good job or not.
>
> Paul

Hi Paul,

I've just received my motherboard returned from the store, who got it
from Asus RMA service. I tried putting on the CPU, the graphics and
one memory chip and still got no display at all, absolutely nothing,
no clue. I've been waiting for a month for my motherboard and it
wasn't the problem.. I'm really getting tired of this. Do you have ANY
idea at all?

thanks

Marco

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Dec 5, 11:50 pm, dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> > >> header.
>
> > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> > >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> > >> header.
>
> > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> > >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
> > > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
> > > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
> > > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
> > > supplies I tried.
>
> > > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
> > > all I needed was a new PSU.
>
> > > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
> > > wich is composed of:
> > > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
> > > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
> > > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
> > > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
> > > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
>
> > > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
> > > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
>
> > > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
> > > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
> > > 450W with these voltage outputs:
> > > +3.3V: 30A
> > > +5V: 45A
> > > +12V1: 17A
> > > And these current outputs:
> > > +12V2: 16A
> > > -12V: 1A
> > > +5Vsb: 2.5A
> > > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
> > > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
> > > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
> > > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
> > > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
> > > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
> > > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
> > > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
> > > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
> > > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
> > > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
>
> > > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
> > > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
> > > not showing any display.
>
> > > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
> > > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
> > > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
> > > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
> > > and where the manual says not to touch.
>
> > > thanks again,
>
> > > Marco
>
> > Return the motherboard and get another one.
> > Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
>
> > Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
> > they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
> > multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
> > load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
> > I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
> > voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
> > like that for hobbyist usage.
>
> > As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
> > "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
> > hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
> > in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
> > process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
> > of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
> > leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
>
> > Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
> > contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
> > rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
> > to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
> > to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
> > household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
> > kind of thing.
>
> > To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
> > good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
> > it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
> > stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
> > about.
>
> > And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
> > example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
> > how the processor is constructed.
>
> > These are some instructions at Intel:
>
> >http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...oducts/desktop...
>
> > "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
> > material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
> > a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
>
> > Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
> > a good job or not.
>
> > Paul
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I've just received ...
>
> read more >>

Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
beeps, and there is still no display... what the??

Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca wrote:

>
> Oh and I forgot, I also tried removing the pcie video card and putting
> an old pci video card. The pc speakers are also plugged and I hear no
> beeps, and there is still no display... what the??

OK, so you've got the P5KC back from RMA ?

You can start very simply at first.

1) Connect the power supply main connector, to the motherboard.
2) Connect the front power switch, to the appropriate two pins
on the PANEL header.
3) Now, plug in the power supply. When you push the power button
on the front of the computer case, you should hear the power
supply come on, and the PSU fan should start to spin and keep
spinning. You should even be able to press the button a second
time, and switch it off again.

That is a motherboard with nothing plugged into it, and in that
configuration, it should be able to switch the power supply on and
off.

Page 37 here, will give you the pinout of the new Startech supply.
This document is suitable for the new 24 pin power supplies for
desktop use.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf

If you still aren't getting anywhere, you can do a test on the power
supply. Now, some people I've had conversations with, don't really
feel comfortable doing this test without a load on the PSU. If you
have a couple of old hard drives, ones you don't care about, you
could connect them to a couple 1x4 Molex plugs on the power supply
to be tested. That will put a bit of load on the supply for testing.

To turn on an ATX supply, when it is not connected to a motherboard,
you connect the PS_ON# signal (green) to an adjacent COM (black)
wire. You can use a paper clip, to make a shorting plug, to insert
in the two adjacent holes. (Only a tiny current flows in the paper
clip, so it doesn't get hot, and won't shock you, as it is at a 5 volt
level.) For as long as the paper clip makes contact, the PSU fan
should spin, and the couple disk drives you connected as a load,
should spin up and make a bit of sound. (Since I have a homemade
load box, with power resistors to load the PSU, I can do this more
easily.)

So that would be a simple test that the PSU can be switched on.
If the PSU responds to the paper clip, and yet will not switch
on, when a motherboard and associated front power switch are
used, then it could be the motherboard which is at fault.

Also, if you think the front power switch is bad, you can swap
the reset and power switch cables, and just use the reset button
as if it was a power switch. Both buttons work the same way, so
are interchangeable for testing purposes.

If you are able to pass the "motherboard + PSU switch-on test",
then you're ready to add more components to the motherboard.
The CPU would be next, and also the computer case speaker would
be a good thing to add. The speaker is useless without the CPU,
which is why I didn't add it for the first test.

As you add components, listen to the beep codes on the speaker.
With the CPU, heatsink/fan installed, but no RAM, a good thing to
hear would be the "missing RAM" beep code. Adding RAM as the
next test, gives "missing video" beep code. Adding the video card
and monitor, means moving on from the speaker, and watching the
monitor screen, for any more error codes. The beep codes will help
you decide, whether the computer is proceeding down the correct
path in the "testing flow chart", if you can picture that
chart in your mind's eye.

I've built two computers, by following these tests (even though
I suspected the components were good). I actually build up the
whole computer, and boot it while it sits on the table top.
Because then I know everything is ready to go. Then I can
assemble the computer in a case, confident that it'll work.
To do that, you need a large, clear area to work, with no
little kids around :-)

HTH,
Paul

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> >>>> proper pins.
> >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> >>>> Paul
> >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> >> header.
>
> >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> >> Paul
>
> > you have to help me Paul, I don't know what's going!!!
> > I found out that my old computer was working perfeclty, that the
> > problem was only my PSU, because it's not working on any other
> > computers I tried and my old computer IS working with other power
> > supplies I tried.
>
> > So now it seems I have paid for a new computer for nothing and that
> > all I needed was a new PSU.
>
> > However, before I knew that, I plugged my Old PSU in my new computer,
> > wich is composed of:
> > Motherboard: Asus P5KC (has 4 DDR2 slots, 2 DDR3 slots, a 775 Socket,
> > two PCIe x16 slots a 24 pin power input)
> > Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad 1066 FSB, 2.4 GHz
> > Memory: 4 chips of 512MB DDR2
> > Graphics: RADEON X1650 Pro 512MB PCIe
>
> > And tried it a couple of times, but nothing was working (of course, my
> > old PSU was broken and I didn't knew it yet!)
>
> > After I figured out the problem was my PSU, I tried a new one from the
> > store with 24 pins power for the motherboard, a StarTech AP-500S12V of
> > 450W with these voltage outputs:
> > +3.3V: 30A
> > +5V: 45A
> > +12V1: 17A
> > And these current outputs:
> > +12V2: 16A
> > -12V: 1A
> > +5Vsb: 2.5A
> > But my new computer is still not working dammit!! The monitor shows
> > "No signal". Even if put the motherboard out of the case with only one
> > memory chip, the cpu and the graphics card and try to power up.
> > Is it because trying to power up with my old PSU fried the
> > motherboard, since it was only 20-pins power and it was broken?
> > Is it because the new power supply still is not powerful enough?
> > Is it because I have to do something special with the motherboard like
> > telling which PCIe slot to use, wich memory slots to use, wich kind of
> > processor is in the CPU between a P4, a dual core or a quad core?
> > There is no jumper settings in the Asus Manual and it's not saying
> > anything special about the quad cores, only that it can take them.
>
> > I also tried my brother's CPU, a socket 775 Pentium 4 and also tried
> > changing the memory chip for any other of the 4 I had, but it's still
> > not showing any display.
>
> > Please help me, I'm tired of this. I think I'll try to return my
> > motherboard for a new one, I'm pretty sure it is a default, but it
> > could also be the CPU, I don't have a computer to try it on and I
> > accidentally touched the region under the processor where the pins are
> > and where the manual says not to touch.
>
> > thanks again,
>
> > Marco
>
> Return the motherboard and get another one.
> Use only the new power supply on the replacement you get.
>
> Power supplies can be tested with a multimeter, especially while
> they are still connected to the old system. I've got several
> multimeters, and I even have a home made load box, for putting a
> load of around 100W or so, on the PSU. By using the load box,
> I don't have to endanger a motherboard, until I've verified the
> voltage readings. It is too bad nobody makes a simple thing
> like that for hobbyist usage.
>
> As for cleaning a processor, I don't really know what is
> "safe and effective". On the one hand, rubbing alcohol will not
> hurt anything, and could be applied to the contact area. But
> in terms of tissues or paper towels to aid in the cleaning
> process, those could leave residue (fibers) behind. Because
> of that fact, and the fact that the rubbing alcohol could
> leave impurities behind, I'd just leave it alone.
>
> Unless you can see foreign matter (something that blocks the
> contacts) and it is just a bit of fingerprint grease, I'd
> rely on the contacts in the socket of the new motherboard,
> to make contact. It is too hard to control cleaning conditions,
> to do a good job without making things worse. A lot of
> household chemicals are not really pure enough for this
> kind of thing.
>
> To test that, find a clear hard surface, that offers
> good visual contrast. Pour a little rubbing alcohol on
> it. Allow the rubbing alcohol to dry. Did it leave a
> stain or drying marks behind ? That is what I'd be worried
> about.
>
> And don't use anything stronger than alcohol. Acetone, for
> example, can dissolve things, and may not be compatible with
> how the processor is constructed.
>
> These are some instructions at Intel:
>
> http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/rese...oducts/desktop...
>
> "Scan the processor package gold pad array for presence of foreign
> material. If necessary, the gold pads can be wiped cleaned with
> a soft lint free cloth and isopropyl alcohol (IPA)."
>
> Use your best judgment, as to whether you think you can do
> a good job or not.
>
> Paul

Hi Paul,

I've just received my motherboard returned from the store, who got it
from Asus RMA service. I tried putting on the CPU, the graphics and
one memory chip and still got no display at all, absolutely nothing,
no clue. I've been waiting for a month for my motherboard and it
wasn't the problem.. I'm really getting tired of this. Do you have ANY
idea at all?

thanks

Marco

dropzone@cgocable.ca

On Dec 5, 11:50 pm, dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> On Nov 8, 10:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connector, is more important if you are
> > >>>> installing two PCI Express video cards. If only
> > >>>> one PCI Express video card is present, then for the
> > >>>> most part, the 20 pin supply connector is good enough.
> > >>>> The 20 pin connector has one 12V wire. The 24 pin
> > >>>> connector has two 12V wires. That increases the room
> > >>>> for current to flow, when something in the motherboard
> > >>>> needs more current. Some video cards draw 12V @ 4A through
> > >>>> the video slot, and when two of those cards are present,
> > >>>> and 8 amps is being called for while 3D gaming, that is
> > >>>> when the 24 pin power supply is a better choice for power.
> > >>>> Paul
> > >>> Thanks, well explained, but I hear there are also adapters, can those
> > >>> do the job for two pci-e video cards and a 480 watts power supply?
> > >> Say you have a 20 pin power supply. You pick up a 20 pin to 24
> > >> pin adapter cable. Then connect that cable to the 24 pin motherboard
> > >> header.
>
> > >> That solves the problem of the current level at the motherboard 24 pin
> > >> connector. But it moves the problem back, to where the 20 pin power
> > >> supply meets the 20 pin adapter end. There is still only one 12V wire
> > >> at that point, and still a possibility that the single pin will overheat
> > >> if there are two video cards in SLI.
>
> > >> As for power supply ratings, not only the total watts count, but the
> > >> 12V @ xx amps rating is important too. The major consumers in modern
> > >> systems are the processor (runs off +12) and the video cards (also
> > >> draw most of their current from +12). Xbitlabs has measured a few cards,
> > >> which is where I get most of my video card info. Processorfinder.intel.com
> > >> gives me power numbers for their processors.www.amdcompare.comcanbe
> > >> used for AMD processor power numbers.
>
> > >> There were some cheap 500W power supplies maybe three or four years ago,
> > >> that had extremely weak 12V outputs (not enough to run even a puny P4 based
> > >> system). Thus the 500W number by itself, is not proof of performance. The
> > >> individual rail ratings count too.
>
> > >> Paul
>
> > > On Oct 27, 12:38 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>> On Oct 26, 6:44 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> > >>>> dropz...@cgocable.ca wrote:
> > >>>>> Forget it, found out it's ok, thanks everyone!
> > >>>> Yup, it's OK to put a 20 pin in a 24 pin hole.
> > >>>> Pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving four empty pins bunched
> > >>>> at one end of the connector. The "shape" of the
> > >>>> nylon shells, helps check the alignment of the
> > >>>> proper pins.
> > >>>> Using a 24 pin connec