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"the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

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Unread 04-12-2007, 04:56 PM   #21
Dave
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

"ChrisM" <chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X-CdnTAAuo0o-8jaRVnytAA@bt.com...
>>>> Am I not right in thinking that the rail services use radio links to
>>>> control signals and points at least some of the time. In which case,
>>>> an electronic radio jammer could be seriously dangerous...
>>>
>>> Are you sure?? If so, that seems an extremely rash engineering
>>> decision. Radio comms in a surface environment is subject to all
>>> sorts of interference and certainly can't be relied on for "mission
>>> critical" applications.

>>
>> No, I'm not at all sure, just I thought I'd read something about it
>> somewhere...

>
> Having said that, I just did a quick Google for "rail signalling radio"
> and although I don't have time at the moment to read any of the links
> properly, it does seem that (secure?) radio links are used at least to
> some degree within the railway networks...
>


Yes one such system is called GSM-R, which can be used for cab signaling and
voice - see my other post.

D


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Unread 04-12-2007, 04:56 PM   #22
Mike Civil
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

In article <0b46a9d1abe4c3107d77d98a58f5963d@dizum.com>,
Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle2889295.ece


Hopefully the users of these unregulated jamming devices will
know enough not to use them where it could interfere with the train
CSR/NRN/IVRS/GSMR/GPS/WLAN......

Devices strong enough to disrupt reception over the length of a whole
train could conceivably affect devices outside the train.

Mike
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 04:57 PM   #23
Big Bird
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

* Nomen Nescio wrote:
> http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...cle2889295.ece
>
> Silent but deadly, the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers
>
> Suffering commuter Matt Rudd discovers there are a daring few who can
> turn off that annoying chatter
>


I'd like to see them jam my WiFi phone.
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 04:57 PM   #24
Mario Lanza
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

On 4 Dec, 14:19, Mike Civil <m...@duncodin.org> wrote:
> In article <0b46a9d1abe4c3107d77d98a58f59...@dizum.com>,
> Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
> >http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...eb/gadgets_and...

>
> Hopefully the users of these unregulated jamming devices will
> know enough not to use them where it could interfere with the train
> CSR/NRN/IVRS/GSMR/GPS/WLAN......
>
> Devices strong enough to disrupt reception over the length of a whole
> train could conceivably affect devices outside the train.
>
> Mike


I think Midland Main Line used them all the time, I can't get a signal
for more than 10 seconds anywhere between Leicester and St P. Will be
interesting to see if Stage Coach/East Midlands Trains (or whatever
they are called now) have inherited them :-)
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:06 PM   #25
Mario Lanza
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

On 4 Dec, 14:19, Mike Civil <m...@duncodin.org> wrote:
> In article <0b46a9d1abe4c3107d77d98a58f59...@dizum.com>,
> Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
> >http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...eb/gadgets_and...

>
> Hopefully the users of these unregulated jamming devices will
> know enough not to use them where it could interfere with the train
> CSR/NRN/IVRS/GSMR/GPS/WLAN......
>
> Devices strong enough to disrupt reception over the length of a whole
> train could conceivably affect devices outside the train.
>
> Mike


I think Midland Main Line used them all the time, I can't get a signal
for more than 10 seconds anywhere between Leicester and St P. Will be
interesting to see if Stage Coach/East Midlands Trains (or whatever
they are called now) have inherited them :-)
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:06 PM   #26
abigailb@gmail.com
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

On Dec 4, 4:44 pm, Mario Lanza <jon.lamb...@accessplus.co.uk> wrote:
> I think Midland Main Line used them all the time, I can't get a signal
> for more than 10 seconds anywhere between Leicester and St P. Will be
> interesting to see if Stage Coach/East Midlands Trains (or whatever
> they are called now) have inherited them :-)


This is believed to be something in the windows, and not an active
jamming device (which would get them in serious trouble).

Also blocks DAB, which is annoying, and I've had difficulty with GPS
on the class 222s, even.

--
Abi
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:07 PM   #27
Mario Lanza
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

On 4 Dec, 16:56, "abiga...***********" <abiga...***********> wrote:
> On Dec 4, 4:44 pm, Mario Lanza <jon.lamb...@accessplus.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I think Midland Main Line used them all the time, I can't get a signal
> > for more than 10 seconds anywhere between Leicester and St P. Will be
> > interesting to see if Stage Coach/East Midlands Trains (or whatever
> > they are called now) have inherited them :-)

>
> This is believed to be something in the windows, and not an active
> jamming device (which would get them in serious trouble).
>
> Also blocks DAB, which is annoying, and I've had difficulty with GPS
> on the class 222s, even.
>
> --
> Abi


Interesting, I'm getting a HST both ways tomorrow (hopefully) so my
phone might work (not that anyone ever calls me).
 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:07 PM   #28
notbresson
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Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times


"ChrisM" <chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6padnbMS_Jhqx8janZ2dnUVZ8tOmnZ2d@bt.com...
> >
>> I like the bit about causing a nuisance - an eye for an eye and all
>> that. But the risk to safety-of-life services? Oh, come on. I'm on a
>> train. I'm going to switch the thing on for only a few seconds to ruin
>> Derek's blow-the-bonus-in-Barbados chat. It's hardly going to bring
>> the London Ambulance Service to its knees.
>> </quote>

>
> Am I not right in thinking that the rail services use radio links to
> control signals and points at least some of the time. In which case, an
> electronic radio jammer could be seriously dangerous...
>
> Blimey. Don't tell the IRA. Just the sort of soft option they like.
>



 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:07 PM   #29
notbresson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times


"ChrisM" <chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:X-CdnTAAuo0o-8jaRVnytAA@bt.com...
> In message U9SdnRgXyY23-MjanZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@bt.com,
> ChrisM <chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> Proclaimed from the tallest
> tower:
>
>> In message Tod5j.195571$I52.2843@fe07.news.easynews.com,
>> MichaelJP <mjp@nospam.com> Proclaimed from the tallest tower:
>>
>>> "ChrisM" <chris_mayersblue@suedeyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6padnbMS_Jhqx8janZ2dnUVZ8tOmnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the bit about causing a nuisance - an eye for an eye and all
>>>>> that. But the risk to safety-of-life services? Oh, come on. I'm on
>>>>> a train. I'm going to switch the thing on for only a few seconds to
>>>>> ruin Derek's blow-the-bonus-in-Barbados chat. It's hardly going to
>>>>> bring the London Ambulance Service to its knees.
>>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>> Am I not right in thinking that the rail services use radio links to
>>>> control signals and points at least some of the time. In which case,
>>>> an electronic radio jammer could be seriously dangerous...
>>>
>>> Are you sure?? If so, that seems an extremely rash engineering
>>> decision. Radio comms in a surface environment is subject to all
>>> sorts of interference and certainly can't be relied on for "mission
>>> critical" applications.

>>
>> No, I'm not at all sure, just I thought I'd read something about it
>> somewhere...

>
> Having said that, I just did a quick Google for "rail signalling radio"
> and although I don't have time at the moment to read any of the links
> properly, it does seem that (secure?) radio links are used at least to
> some degree within the railway networks...
>
> --
> Regards,
> Chris.
> (Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)
>To talk maybe?



 
Unread 04-12-2007, 06:08 PM   #30
tony sayer
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Posts: n/a
Re: "the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers" in the Times

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In article <b3842569-a505-416f-8190-a3640a92967b@e25g2000prg.googlegroup
s.com>, Mizter T <mizter.t***********> scribeth thus
>On 4 Dec, 13:00, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
>> http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...eb/gadgets_and...
>>
>> Silent but deadly, the jammers revenge on mobile prattlers
>>
>> Suffering commuter Matt Rudd discovers there are a daring few who can
>> turn off that annoying chatter

>
>
>The potential for these devices to interfere with important
>frequencies is dismissed very quickly...
>
><quote>
>Ofcom, the UK's communications regulator, is quick to point out that
>the jammers are illegal for good reason: "They cause deliberate
>interference to the radio spectrum which can cause a nuisance to other
>users and at worst are dangerous - potentially jamming the frequencies
>used by the emergency and safety-of-life services."
>
>I like the bit about causing a nuisance - an eye for an eye and all
>that. But the risk to safety-of-life services? Oh, come on. I'm on a
>train. I'm going to switch the thing on for only a few seconds to ruin
>Derek's blow-the-bonus-in-Barbados chat. It's hardly going to bring
>the London Ambulance Service to its knees.
></quote>
>
>
>...which hardly constitutes an analysis of whether these devices could
>cause wider problems. I'd be very interested to know how tightly the
>frequency jamming is drawn on these devices, and whether they are
>likely to disturb more critical radio communications - not just that
>of the emergency services, but also the radio networks of transport
>providers such as Network Rail and the various bus companies.
>
>The author of the Times piece would appear to subscribe to the more
>general cynicism about warnings from the powers that be that mobile
>jamming devices might affect critical radio communications. Without
>knowing the details, I'm far from happy for these warnings to be
>dismissed out of hand.


Now potential jammer.


How would you feel if it was <your> call to whoever possibly the boss, a
customer if you were self employed, the wife one of your children who
needed picking up or for whom arrangements had changed at the last
minute, or a whole host of other calls.

OK the prattle may be a real PITA but wholesale jamming .. don't think
so..

And who's approving these devices anyway .. and railway GSM anyone?....
--
Tony Sayer




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