BT CS - 0207 nnn nnnn frustration

Landru

On Aug 16, 11:10 am, "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse
%d...@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote:

> My son is moving into a flat in London's east end. He rang Bt to take
> over the existing line but instead was given a new number stated by the
> BT CS operator as 0207 nnn nnnn - if BT CS staff can't give numbers out
> properly how can anyone else be expected to get it right!!!
>
> --
> dave @ stejonda

Been in London today and noticed on my Vodafone mobile the cell
broadcast showing "0208" then later "0207" !!!

Andrew Crane

"David Taylor" <davidt-news@yadt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnfcbmfa.het.davidt-news@outcold.yadt.co.uk...

>>> <Rant>
>>> Of course it matters.
>>
>> No it doesn't. It really, really doesn't, other than to pedants who
>> probably
>> don't even know when and when not to use an apostrophe (which is the
>> closest
>> analogy I can come up with). Dial the number, you will get through. It's
>> that simple.
>
> It is that simple. Dial the number, you won't get through. Why,
> other than being an irritating twat, did you snip the part of the post
> where that was explained to you?

If offering a different side to a discussion group makes me an irritating
twat, I think perhaps you are in the wrong place. Usenet is a discussion
forum and if we all had the same point of view, ie yours, then there would
be little point in the place. Let's keep it civil.

My point is that:

1. Everyone knows how a london number is formed. They all begin 0207 or 0208
except for 0203 which might confuse people or 0200 which shouldn't really be
used except for internal routing.
2. Historically 071 was central london and 081 was outer london and
therefore when the new numbering came along, people still wanted 0207 rather
than 0208.
3. Whilst the routing decision may happen after the first three numbers this
is of little consequence to anyone living outside of London
4. People within london know exactly how to dial locally within London so
it's of little consequence to them.
5. Most people use mobiles or stored numbers these days which have the full
number in them.

I think that pointing out at every available opportunity that someone's
advertised number does not follow Ofcom's convention is mere pedantry and
doesn't deserve the anger that it seems to provoke amongs some here. If you
yourself were confused to the point of not being able to get through on the
number you might have a point, but then again if it confused you to that
degree you probably wouldn't be able to operate the computer you used to
post.

Regards
Andrew

dave @ stejonda

In message <fa7734$2a44$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk>, Andrew Crane
<news1@inweb.co.uk> writes
>4. People within london know exactly how to dial locally within London
>so it's of little consequence to them.

No, many people in London do *not* know how to dial locally within
London & it's people like you, who *do* know, but choose to continue to
peddle confusion, that leave large quantities of people unclear about
the correct formatting & construction of London numbers.

--
dave @ stejonda

Andrew Crane

"dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse%dave@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote in
message news:++KnNtHmPyxGFAeJ@privacy.net...
> In message <fa7734$2a44$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk>, Andrew Crane
> <news1@inweb.co.uk> writes
>>4. People within london know exactly how to dial locally within London so
>>it's of little consequence to them.
>
> No, many people in London do *not* know how to dial locally within London
> & it's people like you, who *do* know, but choose to continue to peddle
> confusion, that leave large quantities of people unclear about the correct
> formatting & construction of London numbers.

If the number were to be shown in the ofcom recommended way, would they then
know how to dial locally? I don't think it would. They would have to know
how to dial locally in order to know what the first space signifies.

Regards
Andrew

David Taylor

On 2007-08-18, Andrew Crane <news1@inweb.co.uk> wrote:
>
> "David Taylor" <davidt-news@yadt.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnfcbmfa.het.davidt-news@outcold.yadt.co.uk...
>
>>>> <Rant>
>>>> Of course it matters.
>>>
>>> No it doesn't. It really, really doesn't, other than to pedants who
>>> probably
>>> don't even know when and when not to use an apostrophe (which is the
>>> closest
>>> analogy I can come up with). Dial the number, you will get through. It's
>>> that simple.
>>
>> It is that simple. Dial the number, you won't get through. Why,
>> other than being an irritating twat, did you snip the part of the post
>> where that was explained to you?
>
> If offering a different side to a discussion group makes me an irritating
> twat,

No, the question I asked was "Why, other than being an irritating twat,
DID YOU SNIP THE PART OF THE POST WHERE THAT WAS EXPLAINED TO YOU?".
If you were offering a different side to the discussion, you could perhaps
try addressing the points being discussed!

> I think perhaps you are in the wrong place. Usenet is a discussion
> forum and if we all had the same point of view, ie yours, then there would
> be little point in the place. Let's keep it civil.

There is nothing wrong with having a different point of view from me.
However, if you express your view in a troll-like manner, you will not
get much respect from me.

> My point is that:
>
> 1. Everyone knows how a london number is formed. They all begin 0207 or 0208
> except for 0203 which might confuse people or 0200 which shouldn't really be
> used except for internal routing.
> 2. Historically 071 was central london and 081 was outer london and
> therefore when the new numbering came along, people still wanted 0207 rather
> than 0208.
> 3. Whilst the routing decision may happen after the first three numbers this
> is of little consequence to anyone living outside of London
> 4. People within london know exactly how to dial locally within London so
> it's of little consequence to them.

Tourists?

> 5. Most people use mobiles or stored numbers these days which have the full
> number in them.
>
> I think that pointing out at every available opportunity that someone's
> advertised number does not follow Ofcom's convention is mere pedantry and
> doesn't deserve the anger that it seems to provoke amongs some here. If you
> yourself were confused to the point of not being able to get through on the
> number you might have a point, but then again if it confused you to that
> degree you probably wouldn't be able to operate the computer you used to
> post.

I'm not obsessed by the formatting of London numbers (some people might
be). I merely have a problem with people who attempt to claim 0207 xxx...
is somehow "as good as" 020 7xxx. The code _is_ 020, it _should_ be
written as 020, for good reasons. I fully accept that formatting it
wrongly will not cause problems _most of the time_, but since it's
relatively easy to put the space in the right place, I'm suggesting
it's the best idea...

--
David Taylor

Mark Evans

Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> If we had uniform local number lengths like the US it would be easy.

The problem with a uniform local number length is that you can easily
end up a number shortage in densely populated areas (having multiple
area codes for one city/distinct part of a city is hardly ideal) at the
same time you are likely to end up with areas with more numbers than
can ever possibly be used.

--
Mark Evans
St. Peter's CofE Aided School
Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109
Fax: +44 1392 204763

David Taylor

On 2007-08-18, Andrew Crane <news1@inweb.co.uk> wrote:
>
> "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse%dave@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote in
> message news:++KnNtHmPyxGFAeJ@privacy.net...
>> In message <fa7734$2a44$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk>, Andrew Crane
>> <news1@inweb.co.uk> writes
>>>4. People within london know exactly how to dial locally within London so
>>>it's of little consequence to them.
>>
>> No, many people in London do *not* know how to dial locally within London
>> & it's people like you, who *do* know, but choose to continue to peddle
>> confusion, that leave large quantities of people unclear about the correct
>> formatting & construction of London numbers.
>
> If the number were to be shown in the ofcom recommended way, would they then
> know how to dial locally? I don't think it would. They would have to know
> how to dial locally in order to know what the first space signifies.

Your argument is rather circular. The way to dial locally is generally
to remove the area code. If they know that, they know what the first
space signifies. If the number is printed wrongly everywhere, how
are people supposed to learn that the area code is 020, not 0207?

--
David Taylor

Mark Evans

Adrian <adrian_h_hudson@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > If we had uniform local number lengths like the US it would be easy.
> >
> > Ivor

> My understanding is: There was a plan to take the whole UK to eight
> digit local numbers. i.e. 0 aa nnnn nnnn as in zero for long distance
> two area code digits and and an eight digit local number. That move
> towards sanity has, apparently, been dropped. Offtel favors retaining
> confusion.

This idea came with its own insanity in that the "area" when it comes to
dialing did not correspond with the area when it comes to call charging.
Meaning that either you could be charged at different rates for dialing
two "local" numbers or that you'd have to dial 11 digits for an
apparently local number.

In the UK 8 digit "local" numbers only really make sense for London. For
every other major city 7 digits is plenty and for smaller cities and
towns 6 digits is is fine. There are also plenty of places in the UK
where 6, even 5 digit, local numbers would be more than enough.

--
Mark Evans
St. Peter's CofE Aided School
Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109
Fax: +44 1392 204763

Mark Evans

Richard M Willis <mythreeinitials@mydomain.co.uuk> wrote:
> alexd wrote:

> > Interesting. I wasn't aware that formatting information was sent with the
> > number in CLI. Are you referring to POTS or ISDN?
> >
> Formatting of numbers is provided by the terminating exchange (with
> POTS, anyway). CC7 provides (I think) only for sending digits (no
> punctuation). Different terminating exchanges will inevitably be
> programmed with different formatting tables.

Also some devices with simply ignore anything which isn't a digit when
it comes to displaying/storing the data supplied to them.

--
Mark Evans
St. Peter's CofE Aided School
Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109
Fax: +44 1392 204763

Adrian

On Sep 5, 6:00 am, Mark Evans <m...@st-peters-high.devon.sch.uk>
wrote:
> Adrian <adrian_h_hud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > If we had uniform local number lengths like the US it would be easy.
>
> > > Ivor
> > My understanding is: There was a plan to take the whole UK to eight
> > digit local numbers. i.e. 0 aa nnnn nnnn as in zero for long distance
> > two area code digits and and an eight digit local number. That move
> > towards sanity has, apparently, been dropped. Offtel favors retaining
> > confusion.
>
> This idea came with its own insanity in that the "area" when it comes to
> dialing did not correspond with the area when it comes to call charging.
> Meaning that either you could be charged at different rates for dialing
> two "local" numbers or that you'd have to dial 11 digits for an
> apparently local number.
>
Not really an issue. Even back in the London "01" days, London was
local to parts of some fringe areas.

> In the UK 8 digit "local" numbers only really make sense for London. For
> every other major city 7 digits is plenty and for smaller cities and
> towns 6 digits is is fine. There are also plenty of places in the UK
> where 6, even 5 digit, local numbers would be more than enough.
>
Less densely populated areas would just have larger telephone areas.
It works in Northern Ireland.

In our lifetime we may see the end of area codes. We just end up with
a long telephone number. I do not know this to be the case. I am
only guessing. But, in the age of mobile 'phones and VoIP area codes
are becoming increasingly anomalous.

Adrian