Strange ADSL problem

Gaz

Jim! wrote:
> x-posted to uk.telecom as well.
>
> Went round to help a neighbour earlier who has just had BTBroadband
> installed.
>
> Broadband is working well, but something strange is afoot - he cannot
> use his BT line for voice calls if his Netgear router is plugged in
> (to make/receive a call he has to unplug/switch-off his router ...
> which kinda defeats the object of broadband).
>
> With the router plugged in, and taking the phone off-hook he gets
> nothing .. no dial tone at all. Ringing into his BT line with the
> router on gives an engaged tone (?!)...
>
> First thing I done was change the NTE5 for a new-style openreach one,
> and also removed his filters and replaced them with a ADSL faceplate
> ...
>
> Still no joy - these actions haven't cured it ... and I'm stuck !
>
> Any idea's ? What next ?
>
> The phone is a BT Branded DECT (1 handset) ... and as I said the
> router is a Netgear variant.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jim!

Does he have an old style modem cable plugged into a network port anywhere?
Creates the symptoms you are having.

Gaz

kráftéé

Graham. wrote:
> "News Reader" <no@email.invalid> wrote in message
> news:lxeMi.43977$.net...
>>
>> "kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> Brian Gregory [UK] wrote:
>>>> "Jim!" <> wrote in message
>>>> news:...
>>>>> It's gotta be something related to the Netgear router, or maybe
>>>>> even the cables ...
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like the router is faulty.
>>>
>>> Well done Brian, wondered how long it would take someone to get
>>> to the obviouse answer.
>>>
>>> The router is faulty OP, you have proved it faulty so don't go any
>>> further & take it back to where it was purchased from & demand a
>>> replacement.
>>>
>>> Simple really if you employ KISS & use a little logic & yes it
>>> has been known to happen before . Do not pass go, do not call
>>> the ISP (unless they supplied the router) & above all don't
>>> contact BT (unless they've got £200 laying around doing
>>> nothing)...
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I would say the two most likely candidates are:
>>
>> - faulty router
>> - faulty BT side wiring or configuration at the exchange
>
> Ah! the old configure_the_circuit_so_the_subscribers_line
> goes_dead_when_he_plugs_in_the_router parameter.
>
> Always gets them that one!
>
> I've noticed a number of posts recently about faulty
> DSL modems and routers looping the line.
> I wonder if they get zapped by lightening?

Some of them are being delivered like that from new, no lightening,
nothing other than lousey workmanship & quality control.

kráftéé

PeterG wrote:
> On Oct 1, 6:00 pm, Jim! <> wrote:
>> x-posted to uk.telecom as well.
>>
>> Went round to help a neighbour earlier who has just had BTBroadband
>> installed.
>>
>> Broadband is working well, but something strange is afoot - he
>> cannot use his BT line for voice calls if his Netgear router is
>> plugged in (to make/receive a call he has to unplug/switch-off his
>> router ... which kinda defeats the object of broadband).
>>
>> With the router plugged in, and taking the phone off-hook he gets
>> nothing .. no dial tone at all. Ringing into his BT line with the
>> router on gives an engaged tone (?!)...
>>
>> First thing I done was change the NTE5 for a new-style openreach
>> one, and also removed his filters and replaced them with a ADSL
>> faceplate ...
>>
>> Still no joy - these actions haven't cured it ... and I'm stuck !
>>
>> Any idea's ? What next ?
>>
>> The phone is a BT Branded DECT (1 handset) ... and as I said the
>> router is a Netgear variant.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jim!
>
> The problem is either the router & its leads or problems at the exch
> (when ADSL connected exch equipment puts loop on line)
> Plug router in, power it up, note result
> Plug router in, no power, note result
> Plug just the router lead in (without router), note result
> Try the above on another line (does not have to be ADSL), note
> results
>

If the problem is at the exchange there would not be any dial tone
full stop (normally caused by incorrectly installed DSLAMs & the
occaisional faulty card). If the phone is working without the router
on the line & fails when the router is plugged in are you willing to
pay £200 to be told that it's the router???

Yep visit charge & minimum site time (1 hour) is now just shy of
£200..

Bob Eager

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:33:19 UTC, "Graham." <> wrote:

> I wonder if they get zapped by lightening?

No, I expect they all end up the same dark colour....!
--
Bob Eager
begin 123 a new life...take up Extreme Ironing!

PeterG

On Oct 2, 8:55 pm, "kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
> PeterG wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:00 pm, Jim! <> wrote:
> >> x-posted to uk.telecom as well.
>
> >> Went round to help a neighbour earlier who has just had BTBroadband
> >> installed.
>
> >> Broadband is working well, but something strange is afoot - he
> >> cannot use his BT line for voice calls if his Netgear router is
> >> plugged in (to make/receive a call he has to unplug/switch-off his
> >> router ... which kinda defeats the object of broadband).
>
> >> With the router plugged in, and taking the phone off-hook he gets
> >> nothing .. no dial tone at all. Ringing into his BT line with the
> >> router on gives an engaged tone (?!)...
>
> >> First thing I done was change the NTE5 for a new-style openreach
> >> one, and also removed his filters and replaced them with a ADSL
> >> faceplate ...
>
> >> Still no joy - these actions haven't cured it ... and I'm stuck !
>
> >> Any idea's ? What next ?
>
> >> The phone is a BT Branded DECT (1 handset) ... and as I said the
> >> router is a Netgear variant.
>
> >> Cheers
>
> >> Jim!
>
> > The problem is either the router & its leads or problems at the exch
> > (when ADSL connected exch equipment puts loop on line)
> > Plug router in, power it up, note result
> > Plug router in, no power, note result
> > Plug just the router lead in (without router), note result
> > Try the above on another line (does not have to be ADSL), note
> > results
>
> If the problem is at the exchange there would not be any dial tone
> full stop (normally caused by incorrectly installed DSLAMs & the
> occaisional faulty card). If the phone is working without the router
> on the line & fails when the router is plugged in are you willing to
> pay £200 to be told that it's the router???
>
> Yep visit charge & minimum site time (1 hour) is now just shy of
> £200..

Hence my check list. Up to about 2 months ago I would have agreed with
you, but I was installing a BT Business BB router & every time it
powered up & connected the line went PET, with the router unpowered
all was ok. I changed the router & got the same results, I then put
the original router on a different cct & it worked. If I put the
router on a non ADSL line the line was ok.
After a lot of playing about with the exch group & much checking of
jumpering & changing of cards the fault went. We never got to the
bottom of exactly what was the faulty kit in the exch.

And yes I know the call out charges, I've written out many TRC's,
often for sums far in excess of that, the highest being for about £20K
for damaged equipment & time ( mind you I was there from about noon to
7pm the next night (but the OT was good)

Peter

News Reader

"PeterG" <.uk> wrote in message
news:1191394684.772103.177320@57g2000hsv.googlegro ups.com...
On Oct 2, 8:55 pm, "kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
> PeterG wrote:
> > On Oct 1, 6:00 pm, Jim! <> wrote:
> >> x-posted to uk.telecom as well.
>
> >> Went round to help a neighbour earlier who has just had BTBroadband
> >> installed.
>
> >> Broadband is working well, but something strange is afoot - he
> >> cannot use his BT line for voice calls if his Netgear router is
> >> plugged in (to make/receive a call he has to unplug/switch-off his
> >> router ... which kinda defeats the object of broadband).
>

Hence my check list. Up to about 2 months ago I would have agreed with
you, but I was installing a BT Business BB router & every time it
powered up & connected the line went PET, with the router unpowered
all was ok. I changed the router & got the same results, I then put
the original router on a different cct & it worked. If I put the
router on a non ADSL line the line was ok.
After a lot of playing about with the exch group & much checking of
jumpering & changing of cards the fault went. We never got to the
bottom of exactly what was the faulty kit in the exch.


< SNIP>

===


Hi,


Hence why I was suggesting this as a candidate to. Whilst unlikely and
"theoretically" this should not be a fault condition possibility, when one
starts to factor in infrequent realities such as badly deteriorating lines,
unusual former bodges, exchange equipment that is throwing abnormal
intermittent faults, etc., it probably actually is possible for this to
happen. One easy example would be the increased frequency range attempted to
be used by ADSL and ADSL router could be sufficient to break a very poor
connection, where it is just about able to hold together with normal voice
service (which it may well have bedded in thoroughly over periods of years
of use in that format, etc.), etc.


Best wishes,



News Reader

JohnW

News Reader, in article <drOMi.47866$Db6.25121@newsfe3-
win.ntli.net>, says...
>
>
>Hence why I was suggesting this as a candidate to. Whilst unlikely and
>"theoretically" this should not be a fault condition possibility, when one
>starts to factor in infrequent realities such as badly deteriorating lines,
>unusual former bodges, exchange equipment that is throwing abnormal
>intermittent faults, etc., it probably actually is possible for this to
>happen. One easy example would be the increased frequency range attempted to
>be used by ADSL and ADSL router could be sufficient to break a very poor
>connection, where it is just about able to hold together with normal voice
>service (which it may well have bedded in thoroughly over periods of years
>of use in that format, etc.), etc.
>

I had a good one some time ago - everything checked out fine
and the loop fault wasn't reproducible with the router in the
master socket. Put it back by the computer and everything was
still OK. I was listening to dial tone on a headset while the
router was being re-sited and heard a slight click after which
I couldn't clear the loop. Turned out to be a carpet tack
that was being occasionally stepped on going to the computer
room looped the line - the wire to the slave was under the
carpet... ADSL was OK(ish) but eventually the loop timed out
and no dial-tone...

I've seen a few faults where the wire to the slave was routed
around the skirting-board, etc.
--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.

kráftéé

PeterG wrote:

> And yes I know the call out charges, I've written out many TRC's,
> often for sums far in excess of that, the highest being for about
> £20K for damaged equipment & time ( mind you I was there from about
> noon to 7pm the next night (but the OT was good)

Lucky git, can't get any now even if we beg for it.

It'll all change in a month or so when they force the voluntary rota
change upon us, just watch productivity go down, then they will start
crying for people to go to make up at the weekends & if it's the same
as last year they'll get the 1 finger salute from most of the staff.
Glad I'm going to be out of it this year....

PeterG

On Oct 3, 9:13 pm, "kráftéé" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
> PeterG wrote:
> > And yes I know the call out charges, I've written out many TRC's,
> > often for sums far in excess of that, the highest being for about
> > £20K for damaged equipment & time ( mind you I was there from about
> > noon to 7pm the next night (but the OT was good)
>
> Lucky git, can't get any now even if we beg for it.
>
> It'll all change in a month or so when they force the voluntary rota
> change upon us, just watch productivity go down, then they will start
> crying for people to go to make up at the weekends & if it's the same
> as last year they'll get the 1 finger salute from most of the staff.
> Glad I'm going to be out of it this year....

I'd guess you work for Openreach, I work for Major Business (or
whatever its called today), no doubt it will be our turn next.

Peter

Mike J

kráftéé wrote:

> Glad I'm going to be out of it this year....
>
>
Hey you can't go kraftee!!
Who is going to be around to give good advice and tell the truth?

Mike