ATA to replace SPA-3000?

Martin Johnson

Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?

My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
echo cancellation.

I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.

What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.

Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
been discontinued?

Thanks for any info!

- Martin.

Christian

> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a bit
> poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on audio
> gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI.

Martin,

Maybe you tried this already, and maybe you're already tired of trying stuff
with the SPA-3000 already, but you might want to try different line
impedance configurations in the SPA-configuration, this does have an effect
on the echo canceller.

Trying another analog phone also sometimes help, the local echo canceller
(which is the one that causes the echo at the remote site) sometimes can't
cope very well with specific (cheaper) phones, or a lot of phones parallel.

Christian

Nick

Christian wrote:
>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a bit
>> poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on audio
>> gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI.
>
> Martin,
>
> Maybe you tried this already, and maybe you're already tired of trying stuff
> with the SPA-3000 already, but you might want to try different line
> impedance configurations in the SPA-configuration, this does have an effect
> on the echo canceller.
>
> Trying another analog phone also sometimes help, the local echo canceller
> (which is the one that causes the echo at the remote site) sometimes can't
> cope very well with specific (cheaper) phones, or a lot of phones parallel.
>
> Christian
>
>
I see lots of similar problems with my SPA-3002. Most of the time it is
OK and then it seems to start playing up, both on VOIP and PSTN. The ATA
is so complicated it is always possible to say other setting will fix
the problem. I don't know how many hours I have spent trying to get it
right.

My solution will be to get a Siemens C475IP or maybe the similar SNOM
M3. I'm only holding back while I try and work out what P2P is doing to
mess my router up.

Martin Johnson

Christian wrote:
>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a bit
>> poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on audio
>> gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI.
>
> Martin,
>
> Maybe you tried this already, and maybe you're already tired of trying stuff
> with the SPA-3000 already, but you might want to try different line
> impedance configurations in the SPA-configuration, this does have an effect
> on the echo canceller.
>
> Trying another analog phone also sometimes help, the local echo canceller
> (which is the one that causes the echo at the remote site) sometimes can't
> cope very well with specific (cheaper) phones, or a lot of phones parallel.

Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a go.

In fact I have lots of different, vintage handsets running from the
PABX, so I'm not making life easy for myself ;-)


- Martin.

TheFug

Martin Johnson schreef:
> Can anyone recommend an ATA with really good echo cancellation?
>
> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI. A
> while back I upgraded to the current V3 firmware, which hasn't really
> helped. So I wondered whether a more modern ATA box would have better
> echo cancellation.
>
> I only need 1*Ethernet port and 1xFXS port, as I have a London 8 PABX
> that can be configured as 2+6. But an ATA with 1*Ethernet, 1*FXS, 1*FXO
> would be more flexible, if slightly more complex.
>
> What do people reckon to the Cisco ATA 186? I'm used to configuring
> Cisco routers and switches, and Cisco kit tends to be very reliable.
> Seems to be around the UKP 112 mark.
>
> Also - any comments on the FRITZ!Box Fon ATA? Seems hard to find in the
> UK (even from the websites listed on AVM's site as resellers). Has it
> been discontinued?
>
> Thanks for any info!
>
> - Martin.

The Germans use a annexB type of fritzbox, in holland there are several
sites where you can order a Fritz!box 7170,(annexA) great thing, has
much features, don't expect a pro GUI webinterface, it's meant for the
layman, and is easy to set, and has some very advanced features,(USB
port for storage, printer... and softswitch options) which are far more
easier to set, then a cisco/linksys device.

--
Bedankt, Thanks,

The Fug.

VoIP/SIP switched by:
(A free service sponsored by )

steveybar

"Martin Johnson" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Christian wrote:
>>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
>>> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
>>> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI.
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>> Maybe you tried this already, and maybe you're already tired of trying
>> stuff with the SPA-3000 already, but you might want to try different line
>> impedance configurations in the SPA-configuration, this does have an
>> effect on the echo canceller.
>>
>> Trying another analog phone also sometimes help, the local echo canceller
>> (which is the one that causes the echo at the remote site) sometimes
>> can't cope very well with specific (cheaper) phones, or a lot of phones
>> parallel.
>
> Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a go.
>
> In fact I have lots of different, vintage handsets running from the PABX,
> so I'm not making life easy for myself ;-)
>
>
> - Martin.

The correct impedance setting for UK telephones/pabx lines is:

370+620||310nF

best wishes - Steve.

Martin Johnson

steveybar wrote:
> "Martin Johnson" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Christian wrote:
>>>> My SPA-3000 has never crashed, but echo cancellation has always been a
>>>> bit poor (particularly at the remote caller's end), and dependent on
>>>> audio gain levels set in the poorly-documented, over-complex web GUI.
>>> Martin,
>>>
>>> Maybe you tried this already, and maybe you're already tired of trying
>>> stuff with the SPA-3000 already, but you might want to try different line
>>> impedance configurations in the SPA-configuration, this does have an
>>> effect on the echo canceller.
>>>
>>> Trying another analog phone also sometimes help, the local echo canceller
>>> (which is the one that causes the echo at the remote site) sometimes
>>> can't cope very well with specific (cheaper) phones, or a lot of phones
>>> parallel.
>> Thanks for the idea, I'll give it a go.
>>
>> In fact I have lots of different, vintage handsets running from the PABX,
>> so I'm not making life easy for myself ;-)
>>
>>
>> - Martin.
>
> The correct impedance setting for UK telephones/pabx lines is:
>
> 370+620||310nF
>
> best wishes - Steve.

Thanks.. I seem to have that already, under Regional / Miscellaneous /
FXS Port Impedance.

But, in the same config page (under /admin/advanced) I've just noticed a
box marked "More Echo Suppression: No". I will try setting this to Yes
for a bit and see what happens.

Cheers,

- Martin.

Christian

> My solution will be to get a Siemens C475IP or maybe the similar
> SNOM M3.

To be honest, that is exactly what I did (an S450IP in my case). The
advantage of a real VOIP-phone rather than an ATA is that the sent and
received signal never meet each other on a single line. The only echo will
be caused acoustically in the handset. So the chance of echo on the far end
is reduced quite a lot. I never had any complaints about echo anymore (I did
have some with my SPA3000, although not often).

Christian

Martin Johnson

Christian wrote:
>> My solution will be to get a Siemens C475IP or maybe the similar
>> SNOM M3.
>
> To be honest, that is exactly what I did (an S450IP in my case). The
> advantage of a real VOIP-phone rather than an ATA is that the sent and
> received signal never meet each other on a single line. The only echo will
> be caused acoustically in the handset. So the chance of echo on the far end
> is reduced quite a lot. I never had any complaints about echo anymore (I did
> have some with my SPA3000, although not often).

I have a local PSTN number on my Gradwell VOIP service, so that PSTN
callers in my own town don't need to dial an area code to call me.

After turning down the SPA3000 gain settings a while back, I _think_ I
only now get complaints about echo from callers in my own town, as if
BT's audio gain was higher for such callers. Is it possible that the
audio gain in the BT network is routing-dependent, or is it more likely
to just be coincidence?

- Martin.

Jono

Martin Johnson explained on 10/05/2008 :
> Christian wrote:
>>> My solution will be to get a Siemens C475IP or maybe the similar
>>> SNOM M3.
>>
>> To be honest, that is exactly what I did (an S450IP in my case). The
>> advantage of a real VOIP-phone rather than an ATA is that the sent and
>> received signal never meet each other on a single line. The only echo will
>> be caused acoustically in the handset. So the chance of echo on the far end
>> is reduced quite a lot. I never had any complaints about echo anymore (I
>> did have some with my SPA3000, although not often).
>
> I have a local PSTN number on my Gradwell VOIP service, so that PSTN callers
> in my own town don't need to dial an area code to call me.

Right, I've been reading this thread thinking you've got echo problems
on the PSTN side of the SPA3000.

What you're actually saying is it's a VoIP account that's suffering the
echo..
>
> After turning down the SPA3000 gain settings a while back, I _think_ I only
> now get complaints about echo from callers in my own town, as if BT's audio
> gain was higher for such callers. Is it possible that the audio gain in the
> BT network is routing-dependent, or is it more likely to just be coincidence?
>
> - Martin.